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Author Topic: Printer Selection  (Read 6373 times)

Robert Boire

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Printer Selection
« on: March 07, 2010, 02:34:57 pm »

Hi,

I am in the market for a new printer. Does anybody out there have anything to say (positive or negative) about either the Canon Pro 9500 Mark II or the Pro 9000 Mark II.

What is particularly import for me is the accuracy of the colors and of course a wide as possible gamut. Bells and whistles are not that important.

Thanks in advance.

Robert

DarkPenguin

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Printer Selection
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2010, 04:05:16 pm »

Quote from: RobertBoire
Hi,

I am in the market for a new printer. Does anybody out there have anything to say (positive or negative) about either the Canon Pro 9500 Mark II or the Pro 9000 Mark II.

What is particularly import for me is the accuracy of the colors and of course a wide as possible gamut. Bells and whistles are not that important.

Thanks in advance.

Robert

What about permanence?

The 9500 is a pigment ink printer and the 9000 is a dye ink printer.  Soooooooo...  Typically this means a wider gamut on the 9000, lower longevity and fewer paper choices.
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probep

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« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2010, 04:27:47 pm »

Quote from: DarkPenguin
What about permanence?

The 9500 is a pigment ink printer and the 9000 is a dye ink printer.  Soooooooo...  Typically this means a wider gamut on the 9000, lower longevity and fewer paper choices.
Hmm. Pro9500's color gamut is wider for glossy/semigloss papers.
For example, for Canon Photo Paper Plus Glossy:
Pro9000's gamut volume is 750,811 dE^3
Pro9500's gamut volume is 794,280 dE^3
« Last Edit: March 07, 2010, 04:47:28 pm by probep »
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DarkPenguin

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Printer Selection
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2010, 04:51:35 pm »

Quote from: probep
Hmm. Pro9500's color gamut is wider for glossy/semigloss papers.
For example, for Canon Photo Paper Plus Glossy:
Pro9000's gamut volume is 750,811 dE^3
Pro9500's gamut volume is 794,280 dE^3

Nice.  Easy choice then.

9500 a 10 ink printer?
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probep

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« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2010, 05:04:52 pm »

Quote from: DarkPenguin
Nice.  Easy choice then.
Oh, no. The choice is not easy.
Pro9500 is bad for matte papers. Very bad indeed.
For example, for Canon Matt Photo Paper:
Pro9000's gamut volume is 574,000 dE^3
Pro9500's gamut volume is 393,000 dE^3, and only Dmax=1.24 (with L*min=26)!!!

Yes, Pro9500 has 10 ink tanks.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2010, 03:47:18 am by probep »
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Robert Boire

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« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2010, 08:42:04 pm »

Hi,

What is the source of your information for the gamut volumes for the various papers?

It is important that I be able to use matt papers (but not only matte) as well as papers from other manufacturers

probep

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« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2010, 10:13:16 pm »

Quote from: RobertBoire
What is the source of your information for the gamut volumes for the various papers?
Canned profiles.

But I can show my measurements for Pro9500 for some Epson papers:
Epson Matte Paper-Heavyweight: gamut volume is 388,222 dE^3 and output density Dmax=1.27
Epson Archival Matte:  405,000 dE^3 and Dmax=1.32
---
Epson Premium Semigloss: 808,000 dE^3 and Dmax=2.24
Epson Premium Glossy: 809,000 dE^3  and Dmax=2.24
Epson Ultra Glossy: 824,000 dE^3 and Dmax=2.32

P.S. For profiling I used an i1Pro spectro, ProfileMaker5 application and targets with 2,660 patches.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2010, 03:47:48 am by probep »
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Deepsouth

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« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2010, 12:32:23 pm »

There have been several threads about the 9500 on this forum, including, just recently (like last two weeks). I have the 9500 Mk I. It is listed as a 10 color printer but of course only 9 are active at a time (gloss or matte black ink selection varies by paper setting). If you are going to print matte, you really, really, need to get third party profiles. Canon's profiles for its own media are not that great. Again, there was a thread about that quite recently.

The 9500 (both marks) have that 35 mm border problem. If you don't already know about that, certain paper choices in the printer driver require a 35 mm border, restricting image size. I've discussed this with Canon tech support and they solomenly (sic) tell me that edge-to-edge printing on "fine art" paper is too risky for fear of edge splotching. Yet borderless works fine with glossy media. The work around is to specify a media that does not bear the 35 mm stigma and adjust the printer settings and use the appropriate profile.

If you have the funds, I recommend going on up to 17 inch machine. That is the gateway to true pro printing with roll media and better OEM and aftermarket tech suport. The 13 inch machines fall into a limbo zone beween consumer grade inkjets and true prosumer gear.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2010, 12:34:18 pm by Deepsouth »
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Robert Boire

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« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2010, 06:56:36 pm »

Quote from: probep
Canned profiles.

But I can show my measurements for Pro9500 for some Epson papers:
Epson Matte Paper-Heavyweight: gamut volume is 388,222 dE^3 and output density Dmax=1.27
Epson Archival Matte:  405,000 dE^3 and Dmax=1.32
---
Epson Premium Semigloss: 808,000 dE^3 and Dmax=2.24
Epson Premium Glossy: 809,000 dE^3  and Dmax=2.24
Epson Ultra Glossy: 824,000 dE^3 and Dmax=2.32

P.S. For profiling I used an i1Pro spectro, ProfileMaker5 application and targets with 2,660 patches.

Robert Boire

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« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2010, 07:03:16 pm »

Quote from: probep
But I can show my measurements for Pro9500 for some Epson papers:

Unfortunately I am a neophyte and do not know how to interpret the measurements. If  you have the time can you provide a brief explanation or point me somewhere that explains values?

Thanks

DarkPenguin

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Printer Selection
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2010, 08:01:18 pm »

Quote from: RobertBoire
Unfortunately I am a neophyte and do not know how to interpret the measurements. If  you have the time can you provide a brief explanation or point me somewhere that explains values?

Thanks

Try this site.  Look through the older articles.  Some of the printer reviews probably contain this info.
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sgalpin

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« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2010, 10:19:34 pm »

Quote from: probep
Oh, no. The choice is not easy.
Pro9500 is bad for matte papers. Very bad indeed.
For example, for Canon Matt Photo Paper:
Pro9000's gamut volume is 574,000 dE^3
Pro9500's gamut volume is 393,000 dE^3, and only Dmax=1.24 (with L*min=26)!!!

Yes, Pro9500 has 10 ink tanks.
I have a 9500 (not MK II).  To get good Dmax on mat surface paper you need to use one of the "fine art 35" media settings.  The penalty is a 35mm wide strip at each end of the page you cannot print on.  Using the mat paper setting you can print the whole page, but then the color gamut and Dmax is much more limited.  Using one of the "fine art 35" media setting with a proper profile the results are in line with what you would expect from a good pigment ink printer.  I am very pleased with the prints I have made on both photo and mat paper.  Sam
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probep

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« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2010, 12:14:23 am »

Quote from: sgalpin
I have a 9500 (not MK II).  To get good Dmax on mat surface paper you need to use one of the "fine art 35" media settings.  The penalty is a 35mm wide strip at each end of the page you cannot print on.  Using the mat paper setting you can print the whole page, but then the color gamut and Dmax is much more limited.  Using one of the "fine art 35" media setting with a proper profile the results are in line with what you would expect from a good pigment ink printer.  I am very pleased with the prints I have made on both photo and mat paper.  Sam
Hmm, interesting... Well I'll try it.

Thanks
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probep

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« Reply #13 on: March 14, 2010, 04:12:00 am »

Quote from: sgalpin
I have a 9500 (not MK II).  To get good Dmax on mat surface paper you need to use one of the "fine art 35" media settings.  The penalty is a 35mm wide strip at each end of the page you cannot print on.  Using the mat paper setting you can print the whole page, but then the color gamut and Dmax is much more limited.  Using one of the "fine art 35" media setting with a proper profile the results are in line with what you would expect from a good pigment ink printer.  I am very pleased with the prints I have made on both photo and mat paper.  Sam
Ye-e-es. You are absolutely right.
I've tested various paper settings for Epson Archival Matte Paper on my Canon Pro9500. I used KeyWizard utility to define Dmax. It's more accurate than GamutVision.
1. Setting: Matte Photo Paper --> Dmax=1.43 and black L*= 22.62
2. Setting: Photo Paper Plus Glossy II   --> Dmax=1.42 and black L*=22.8
3. Setting: Fine Art Premium Matte --> Dmax=1.61 and black L*=17.62. Excellent result for ordinary matt paper!

Thanks for your advice.

P.S. But I do not understand Canon's approach at all. It's very strange.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2010, 04:45:29 am by probep »
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Deepsouth

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« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2010, 09:41:07 am »

Quote from: probep
Ye-e-es. You are absolutely right.
I've tested various paper settings for Epson Archival Matte Paper on my Canon Pro9500. I used KeyWizard utility to define Dmax. It's more accurate than GamutVision.
1. Setting: Matte Photo Paper --> Dmax=1.43 and black L*= 22.62
2. Setting: Photo Paper Plus Glossy II   --> Dmax=1.42 and black L*=22.8
3. Setting: Fine Art Premium Matte --> Dmax=1.61 and black L*=17.62. Excellent result for ordinary matt paper!

Thanks for your advice.

P.S. But I do not understand Canon's approach at all. It's very strange.


The Canon tech support tells me that fine art paper will wick up ink at the edges, unlike glossy, so that is why the 9500 has that 35 mm requirement. I've never noticed this, but they insist it happens. I wish they had taken a more libertarin approach and advised "You may have this problem. If so, make your margin (which would not have to be 35 mm, for gosh sakes  ) wider". Instead of the big-brother, 'we know what's best for you' attitude. I am wondering if Mr. Reichman has any "pull" with Canon to the extent he could convince them to issue a driver update to eliminate this nonsense. Or I guess we could use a 3rd party RIP.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2010, 09:44:42 am by Deepsouth »
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