Snow Leopard 10.6.3 - Colour Management Fix ?

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

My "Safari" does show all colors correctly on the http://www.color.org/version4html.xalter test.

I'm on 10.6.3, upgraded 2 days ago.

I believe that my display profile is V2 not V4.

I feel that color management is a complex issue, involving OS, software and printer drivers. It seems that version 2 work consistently so I use it for now, until some real expert tells me it's time to switch.

Best regards
Erik

Downloaded and opened in Adobe Acrobat Pro, the test PDF file from the linked website does indicate (on my system) that both versions 2 and 4 icc profiles are supported by OSX 10.6.3.
The html file displayed on the website viewed in Safari does not seem to support version 4.

[digitaldog]

I feel that color management is a complex issue, involving OS, software and printer drivers. It seems that version 2 work consistently so I use it for now, until some real expert tells me it's time to switch.

Its a good idea to stick with V2 profiles for awhile, keeping in mind there are differences between the use and capabilities of V4 display and output profiles (someone mentioned a V4 target, not sure what that is about). Some app’s have had difficulties with V4 display profiles. Some RIPs can’t deal with V4 output profiles. While Safari might be perfectly happy with V4 display profiles, other app’s may cause issues (LR was one such app).

[Ryan Grayley]

Today I ran a more comprehensive series of tests on my Epson 9600 in order to establish which MacOSX versions work correctly with this printer.
The results can be seen here:

http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....showtopic=42745

[dsmphoto]

I didn't read the rest of your post in detail(will later), but just a thought ... 10.5 is where this problem began and we began having to work around the problem.  So not sure going back to 10.5 to achieve a "baseline" will work.

From all the testing I have done and seen Ryan do, the best work around was printing from CS2 on 10.4.  Other combinations worked, (I think CS3 worked OK on 10.5) but Ryan seemed to have the most success getting his baselines printing from a Windows system.

I didn't measure my targets, I would assume some variance. However, problematic targets were easily differentiated visually when compared ... it was quite obvious is some color patches.

My prints from CS4 to a 4880 and to a 2880 were fine under 10.5, so for me its an excellent baseline. The problems started when I loaded 10.6 and the printer drivers no longer worked. The point of my post was to show that for the 4880, if you have the latest Epson driver loaded correctly, you are back to the pre 10.6 conditions and to set up a test baseline for 10.6.3 after I loaded it.

http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....st&p=357306

The results are good. A print, after loading 10.6.3, compared to the measurements in the above post for the 10.5 print (printed 5/23/09):

Patch ; L*,a*,b*- dE
1) 2.3
2) 1.0
13) 0.9
14) 2.8
15) 0.8

To describe these numbers in visual terms, none of these patch measurements were detectably different side by side in i1 Share, calibrated Sony Artisan.

Also, this repeatability over 11 months, different ink load and printer driver, damaging operating system changes, etc. is pretty amazing. There was no "work around" of any type in these prints or in the driver install.

Scott McRae

[Wayne Fox]

preliminary results on the 11880 are a mixed bag.

i1 match Target printed using 10.6.3/CS4 and Eric Chan work around match targets printed from 10.4.11/CS1.

Target printed directly from i1 match also were visually identical to both of those (good news, this was problematic in 10.6.2)

However, I cannot print any document with CS4 set to no color management ... either tagged or untagged. The computer sends the data to the printer,  but nothing prints, paper moves through as though I printed an empty document or a document of 100% white.

The latest 11880 driver predates 10.5 so I'm not sure whether this is a problem related to my install or if it's a problem with the driver.  I'll try this on the 11880 at the store tomorrow. Will be testing a 3800 this weekend.

[Ryan Grayley]

However, I cannot print any document with CS4 set to no color management ... either tagged or untagged. The computer sends the data to the printer,  but nothing prints, paper moves through as though I printed an empty document or a document of 100% white.

This morning I realised that I had neglected to investigate whether setting the 9600 to the default printer under System Settings/Print & Fax makes any difference to the print tests.
I will update my 9600 thread with my results shortly:

( http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....showtopic=42745 )

I have a few more tests to do but there is one thing in particular that you may like to know about.

If my 9600 is set as the default printer under MacOSX 10.6.3, then nothing happens whatsoever when I try to print an untagged test strip from CS4 with CM disabled in Photoshop and the print driver.

If I re-run this test after setting some other printer as the default then the 9600 will print the test strip but it is very slightly incorrect to my eye. I guess this would need to be measured in order to establish the delta difference from my benchmark test strips. Here are some other results for comparison:

Using MacOSX 10.5.8 and CS4, my 9600 produces an untagged test strip correctly *but only* if it is set as the default printer.
Using MacOSX 10.5.8 and CS1, my 9600 produces an untagged test strip correctly whether or not it is set as the default printer.

Using MacOSX 10.6.3 and CS4, my 7900 produces an untagged test strip correctly whether or not it is set as the default printer.

What happens if you print an untagged test chart on your 11880 with some other printer set as default?

In fixing Colour Management for the 7900/9900 maybe Apple have screwed up everything else?
Perhaps Epson need to update all of their Pro print drivers to work correctly with MacOSX 10.6.3?

As usual, it seems that the customer community is left to beta test MacOSX/print drivers and sort out the mess.
Perhaps Apple and Epson should set up QA departments?

[Wayne Fox]

Perhaps Epson need to update all of their Pro print drivers to work correctly with MacOSX 10.6.3?

It seems the US version of the 11880 driver may have some issues , and in fact may not be the correct driver.  At my store today, I went to install the 11880 driver on my Mac, and got the notorious "A file named Preferences has the same name as a folder that needs to be installed error."  In checking it seems this error should only be occuring if you install an older driver after you have installed one of the newer drivers ... for example the 9600 driver after installing the 7900 driver.  But the 11880 driver shouldn't be causing this.  This is info from the UK site (here if you are interested http://tinyurl.com/yb89twd )

The US site driver version is 6.15 which caused this problem.  The UK version is 6.55   .. I have no clue how the numbers are supposed to match up or even if they do, but I decided to install 6.55 on a different mac that was printing to the 11880, and did not get this error.

At that point I printed two targets (an i1 match target), 10.6.3 and CS4, one using Eric's work around and one using no color management with no problems.  Visually identical.  I also printed the same target from i1 match, and it was visually identical.

It appears the current 11880 driver on the USA site may be problematic.  The preferences error should not be ocurring when installing the 11880 driver, since this error won't occur when installing a newer driver after installing an older one (such as the 9600). The fact the error occurred indicates the driver may not be current.

The 11880 seems to be fine printing targets as long as I have installed driver version 6.55 from the UK site.  I'll confirm this on the 11880 at home over the weekend, but we now have both the 7900 and 11880 here at the store printing untagged and non color managed documents correctly.

I'm curious about your default printer thing, so I may try that on the 11880 at home before I delete the driver and install the UK version.

[Ryan Grayley]

It seems the US version of the 11880 driver may have some issues , and in fact may not be the correct driver.  At my store today, I went to install the 11880 driver on my Mac, and got the notorious "A file named Preferences has the same name as a folder that needs to be installed error."  In checking it seems this error should only be occuring if you install an older driver after you have installed one of the newer drivers ... for example the 9600 driver after installing the 7900 driver.  But the 11880 driver shouldn't be causing this.  This is info from the UK site (here if you are interested http://tinyurl.com/yb89twd )

That is an article I hadn't seen before so thanks for pointing it out.
I installed my Epson 9600 v3.09 driver after the Epson 7900 driver and yes I got the error.
I elected to overwrite the file.
At this point I ran my MacOSX 10.6.3 tests from my Intel Mac.

I now need to trash the whole of the Epson folder etc and reinstall the drivers from scratch starting with the Epson 9600.
Then I need to retest the 9600 from MacOSX 10.6.3.
Not sure if I will have time to do this for a few days bit I will pick up as soon as I can.

(BTW, it is nice to see Epson UK doing something useful for a change.)

[Farmer]

6.55 should be the latest full release driver for the 11880, then there is a "common updater" to bring it up to Snow Leopard spec.  This can be downloaded from:

http://tech.epson.com.au/downloads/Redirec...DownloadID=6324

Which is via the Epson Australia website.

The common updater is also applicable to the 7900/9900.  The 9600 doesn't have an update at the moment.

[Wayne Fox]

6.55 should be the latest full release driver for the 11880, then there is a "common updater" to bring it up to Snow Leopard spec.  This can be downloaded from:

http://tech.epson.com.au/downloads/Redirec...DownloadID=6324

Which is via the Epson Australia website.

The common updater is also applicable to the 7900/9900.  The 9600 doesn't have an update at the moment.

Interesting.  The info on Australia's site doesn't really jive with the US site.

On Epson USA's downloads  the main installer is listed as 6.15 and is listed as compatible with Tiger, Leopard and Snow leopard.  The common updater says it is for Leopard and "This updater corrects possible issues with image cut-offs and margin shift when printing landscape or borderless images."

Of course, wouldn't be the first time that things were clear, so I'll give it a shot tonight for fun.  It seems the UK driver is the simplest fix.

[chris moody]

Using OSX 10.6.3, CS4 and the latest UK driver for the Epson 3800. Printing targets and profile creation with the Eye One Pro seems to be working fine now.

[na goodman]

When using the UK driver do you get any differences in the paper sizes? I see the 3800 US driver is different than the UK driver just mentioned in the last post. I'm hoping to install the Mac OS update later today and will print targets and see how it goes. It seems people are being able to do so without problems.

[na goodman]

Finally I do not need a work around or to print from CS3 to print my targets. I am using a MacPro and MacBook Pro, 10.6.3 and CS4. I'm happy.

[Ryan Grayley]

And now to test Snow Leopard 10.6.3v1.1 and PhotoShop CS5?

And every forthcoming release?

:-(

[na goodman]

Has anyone beta tested CS5 with SL 10.6.3. If they have, please let us know the results. I'm only hoping all printing paths will remain the same.

[Marco Ugolini]

And now to test Snow Leopard 10.6.3v1.1 and PhotoShop CS5?

And every forthcoming release?

Yes, specially if you are an early adopter.

Like it or not, that's the way it is.

[shewhorn]

Just adding to the data here...

OS X 10.6.3
Photoshop CS4
Canon IPF8300 Photoshop driver

Built a profile using Profile Maker Measure to scan and Eye One Match to generate the profile. Profile looks fine.

Same config but profiling an Epson 2200... that was a total disaster. The profile looks like some kind of Origami in ColorThink and the Granger Chart might actually pass as modern art.

Cheers, Joe

[Doyle Yoder]

Same config but profiling an Epson 2200... that was a total disaster. The profile looks like some kind of Origami in ColorThink and the Granger Chart might actually pass as modern art.

Cheers, Joe

You will need to figure out what profile the driver is converting to when using Apple's new printing path and then assign that profile to anything going through going that driver. Do you print profile conversion first and then assign the profile that the driver is using.

Doyle

[madmanchan]

Wayne, your experience matches mine. I don't have an 11880 here, but I've worked with a few other photographers who've been troubleshooting printing targets to their 11880 with the USA version of the driver. They also ended up getting the driver from the Epson UK site and that worked for them.

[jerryrock]

Photoshop CS5 - 16 bit print output selected
Snow Leopard 10.6.3
Canon iPF5100
Canon Premium Bright Photo Satin Paper (260 GSM)
Canon Profile - Premium Bright Photo Satin (5100_PBPS260_S5_D50)

Converted to the printer profile and printed through Photoshop CS5's print dialog with 16bit output (Mac only), the print is identical in color and detail to the same image printed through Photoshop CS4 and Canon's 16 bit Photoshop Plug-in.