HP Z3100 Support Nightmare - HP users beware!

[bors]

The HP z3100 printer didn't come with a sophisticated profiling solution, despite it's built in profiler.  You had to purchase the Advanced Profiling System (APS) for an additional $700 if you want to get accurate color out of the printer.

APS has two parts, software and an HP branded i1Display2 monitor profiling device.  

Recently my HP i1Display stopped working for monitor profiling.  Every profile had a crazy red cast.  I tested it with i1Match software.  Same thing, so I threw it away, and bought a replacement i1Display from xrite.

The next time I tried to make a PRINTER profile, the APS software told me invalid monitor profiling device.  It turns out that the APS software is tied to the serial number of the HP i1Display that came with it.  The software will not function without the device.  

This means that you cannot even make a *printer* profile with APS if your HP branded i1Display dies.  

It never occurred to me that someone would be foolish enough to tie a *monitor* profiling device to making a *printer* profile, but HP has done it.

Not only that, but I've been round the block a few times with HP support on this, and they tell me that because the device is out of warranty there is nothing they can do.  

Well, there is something I can do.  Helloooo Epson.  My old friend.  I"m sorry I haven't been in touch lately, but I had a foolish flirtation that has left me after a couple years with a worthless piece of very fine equipment.  

[walter.sk]

The HP z3100 printer didn't come with a sophisticated profiling solution, despite it's built in profiler.  You had to purchase the Advanced Profiling System (APS) for an additional $700 if you want to get accurate color out of the printer.

APS has two parts, software and an HP branded i1Display2 monitor profiling device.  

Recently my HP i1Display stopped working for monitor profiling.  Every profile had a crazy red cast.  I tested it with i1Match software.  Same thing, so I threw it away, and bought a replacement i1Display from xrite.

The next time I tried to make a PRINTER profile, the APS software told me invalid monitor profiling device.  It turns out that the APS software is tied to the serial number of the HP i1Display that came with it.  The software will not function without the device.  

This means that you cannot even make a *printer* profile with APS if your HP branded i1Display dies.  

It never occurred to me that someone would be foolish enough to tie a *monitor* profiling device to making a *printer* profile, but HP has done it.

Not only that, but I've been round the block a few times with HP support on this, and they tell me that because the device is out of warranty there is nothing they can do.  

Well, there is something I can do.  Helloooo Epson.  My old friend.  I"m sorry I haven't been in touch lately, but I had a foolish flirtation that has left me after a couple years with a worthless piece of very fine equipment.

I feel the same way, and I worry about that with my APS colorimeter and software.  I remember that when I first installed the APS system I could not get it to recognize the serial number.  Eventually, X-Rite sent me a file with a registry key that allowed my to proceed.  I wonder if you were to get another I1Display2 colorimeter whether X-Rite would be willing to write some code to allow you to use APS?

[Roscolo]

The HP z3100 printer didn't come with a sophisticated profiling solution, despite it's built in profiler.  You had to purchase the Advanced Profiling System (APS) for an additional $700 if you want to get accurate color out of the printer.

Sorry you have a problem, but the statement you have made is incorrect. Going on 3 years of accurate color from profiles made on my z3100. I opted not to buy into the APS because so many z3100 owners said they're getting great profiles, color and results without any APS. And I did not need the monitor profiling solution as I already had an excellent monitor calibration system.

That said, I hope you reach a solution with your APS problem.

[Ernst Dinkla]

Recently my HP i1Display stopped working for monitor profiling.  Every profile had a crazy red cast.  I tested it with i1Match software.  Same thing, so I threw it away, and bought a replacement i1Display from xrite.

You never were aware that the puck also acted as a dongle for the APS software?



met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla

Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/

[howseth]

Sorry about your problems with the APS System. I have the 'Plain Jane' Z-3100 - and have gotten good profiling matching with it. My problem, sometimes, is that the software is glitchy sometimes and I have to shut off the machine - and re-start it sometimes to get it to profile a paper. But once it actually profiles - it has done a decent job.

Howard

[John.Murray]

I'm also quite happy with the profiles generated by the Z's built in hardware.  I have an i1Pro and have created additional profiles; so far I'm well satisfied with machine generated ones

[EricWHiss]

I'm happy with my z3200 profiles too.

[bors]

Thanks all for the input.    

To answer a few questions:

APS makes profiles with measurably wider gamut than the as-provided profile software.  This is especially important for me when trying to reproduce landscape images accurately.  I did some comparisons when I first bought APS, and the improvement was dramatic for me, especially in the greens.  Night and day really.  I can (could!) reproduce colors with APS you can't dream of doing with non-APS profiles.

I don't have another profiler.  That is why I bought APS.    

If I knew that the dongle was tied to the software at one point, I forgot over time, otherwise I'd never have thrown it away!

My core complaint is tying software functionality to a piece of hardware unrelated to the software's core function.  I simply wanted to warn others, don't throw that piece of hardware away!  And warn potential new APS users as well of this Achilles heel in the product.

I already went the route of buying an xrite i1Display2, thinking that all dongles are equal, but both xrite and HP have told me that I'm out of luck.  

Going to avoid HP going forward.  I try not to give money to companies that have built in pre-planned obsolescence like this.  Treating your customers like criminals by linking software to hardware in this way is bad form, especially when their 'protections' break functionality that is critical for the product to function.  APS should be built in standard and warrantied along with the printer.  APS is the only thing HP has going over Epson.

[EricWHiss]

Thanks all for the input.    

To answer a few questions:

APS makes profiles with measurably wider gamut than the as-provided profile software.  This is especially important for me when trying to reproduce landscape images accurately.  I did some comparisons when I first bought APS, and the improvement was dramatic for me, especially in the greens.  Night and day really.  I can (could!) reproduce colors with APS you can't dream of doing with non-APS profiles.

I don't have another profiler.  That is why I bought APS.    

If I knew that the dongle was tied to the software at one point, I forgot over time, otherwise I'd never have thrown it away!

My core complaint is tying software functionality to a piece of hardware unrelated to the software's core function.  I simply wanted to warn others, don't throw that piece of hardware away!  And warn potential new APS users as well of this Achilles heel in the product.

I already went the route of buying an xrite i1Display2, thinking that all dongles are equal, but both xrite and HP have told me that I'm out of luck.  

Going to avoid HP going forward.  I try not to give money to companies that have built in pre-planned obsolescence like this.  Treating your customers like criminals by linking software to hardware in this way is bad form, especially when their 'protections' break functionality that is critical for the product to function.  APS should be built in standard and warrantied along with the printer.  APS is the only thing HP has going over Epson.

Yeah might be true the APS will make a better profile, and in a way you're pointing out reasons why you should stick with HP not dump them. I see your frustration, but you did toss out the puck right?  In any case  high quality profiles for most of the common papers are available from the paper manufacturers so the APS option is probably more important if you are using short runs of uncommon papers.  
 

[Ernst Dinkla]

The Z3100 APS added to the paper profile quality compared to Z3100's Color Center.

For the Z3200 I actually prefer Color Center, it improved considerably if compared to Z3100 Color Center and APS on the Z3200 (though working with a new color engine as I understand it) isn't better. I see some weird shifts on heavy blue-violet areas with Atkinson test images. The HP OEM profiles are identical in color control to the Color center ones, at least for the papers I tested.


met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla

Dinkla Gallery Canvas Wrap Actions for Photoshop
http://www.pigment-print.com/dinklacanvaswraps/index.html

[artobest]

Surely if you buy an Epson you'll have to fork out for a profiling solution for that anyway? You know the Z is a fine machine, so why not just count to ten, swallow your pride and admit you made a simple error?

Just my two cents ...

[bors]

Surely if you buy an Epson you'll have to fork out for a profiling solution for that anyway? You know the Z is a fine machine, so why not just count to ten, swallow your pride and admit you made a simple error?

Just my two cents ...

Heh.  Yeah.  However, pride is easier to swallow than $800-900 for a new copy of APS.   I don't have a problem purchasing another 'dongle', it is the required repurchase of the software that is insane on HP's part.

[deanwork]

I will add my voice to the comments that the standard non-aps software can make very good profiles and I've been very happy with it, even in comparison to profiles made with the aps that I've compared them to.
What I think is crazy is buying one of these machines with aps and not keeping it in warranty? All of these new printers that are full of electronics ( like cameras) are subject to all kinds of issues.  If you think the Epson 9900s and 11880s are without problems, wake up and read these lists. There are a LOT more people screaming about the unresolved micro banding that Epson can't seem to solve, in  black and cyan channels than there ever was about HP profiling problems.  And all of the companies are going blow you off if your warranty is up.

john

Heh.  Yeah.  However, pride is easier to swallow than $800-900 for a new copy of APS.   I don't have a problem purchasing another 'dongle', it is the required repurchase of the software that is insane on HP's part.

[walter.sk]

I have a bare minimum of knowledge about how computer software works, probably just enough to be dangerous to myself and my equipment.  However, I have an idea, probably very naive, that might work if you know somebody really knowledgeable.

If you go to Documents & Settings>All Users>Application Data> HP-APS and open the folder you will have a file labeled Registry Key, which contains the serial number that APS expects to find when you plug your colorimeter in.  I would bet my boots that 1) you might be able to change the code to reflect your new serial number and/or 2)  Find the place in the APS code that compares the registry key to what it is expecting, and that somehow these can be changed to get your new serial number to work.

I know it would take somebody really familiar with programming, and that it is not legal to deconstruct the HP software.  However, it should be illegal for them to refuse to give you a solution for your problem, even though it was your mistake in throwing away the colorimeter.  However, what would have happened if it failed in a different way, so that even if you had kept it it would not communicate with the software?  I think either HP or X-Rite should honor that.

Actually, I never thought about the issue before and I shudder to think about what would happen if my colorimeter croaked and disabled my ability to use HP-APS!

A similar issue, I think, comes from Epson.  My friend has an Epson 4000, their first 17" professional printer, which cost him close to $3,000 a few years ago.  He upgraded to Windows 7 and found out that his printer is useless as Epson has abandoned making drivers for the new OS.

[bors]

I will add my voice to the comments that the standard non-aps software can make very good profiles and I've been very happy with it, even in comparison to profiles made with the aps that I've compared them to.
What I think is crazy is buying one of these machines with aps and not keeping it in warranty? All of these new printers that are full of electronics ( like cameras) are subject to all kinds of issues.  If you think the Epson 9900s and 11880s are without problems, wake up and read these lists. There are a LOT more people screaming about the unresolved micro banding that Epson can't seem to solve, in  black and cyan channels than there ever was about HP profiling problems.  And all of the companies are going blow you off if your warranty is up.

john

John,

True, no system is problem free.  However, we need to hold companies accountable for bad practice, and poor customer experience.  Forums are a good place to start.  We all vote with our dollars.  To your point, HP support has told me that HP will not extended warranty on the APS dongle because the hardware is not theirs.    

-Bors

[bors]

The sad saga continues.  

HP Design Jet support sends me a link to another copy of the software to buy it.
I buy it.
It is the wrong software.  It is APS for Dreamcolor Monitors.
So I search for APS for printers but I cannot find APS for the Z printers anywhere on HP's website.

Again, woe be to you HP APS owners if your dongle dies.

[rdonson]

The APS is PN Q6695A.  Its quite possible that you won't find it on HP's site.  Then again, most things can't be found on HP's maze of websites.

It is available from a number of other sources, I believe.

ProVantage  for example....

[walter.sk]

The APS is PN Q6695A.  Its quite possible that you won't find it on HP's site.  Then again, most things can't be found on HP's maze of websites.

It is available from a number of other sources, I believe.

ProVantage  for example....

As an owner of an HP Z3100, I would gladly forgo the "pleasures" of browsing the HP website for answers to my problems, were they to take it off the web for a week, or even a month in order to design one from scratch that would provide in the most direct way the information and resources needed by users of the various HP products, rather than the "spaghetti-wired (remember that old term?) system they have now.  

I'm sure that at least several people on LuLa have enough experience to design a map for HP that would be easily implemented, accurate, maintainable, and not a nightmare to negotiate.

It is just a shame to have the R&D funds and efforts to produce fine equipment and then throw a shoe in the works because of such poor customer service through web design.

[thomasmoran]

I to have been bitten hard by early adopter syndrome... Im running 10.6.2 on a new quad core imac and APS crashes right on lunch every time I try to open it. I contacted HP and they said they are aware of the problem and that an update to APS would be released within the next month (That was 3 weeks ago). Have any of you experienced this problem? I've made sure that I'm using the latest version of APS which I believe is 1.4.1. and this solved nothing. This really sucks due to the fact that I haven't been able to make new profiles in over a month and its starting to become a bigger and bigger problem each day. Anyone have any info on when we can expect an update from HP?

Thomas