Topic: HP DJ z3100 paper loading problem (Read 8717 times)

Miller · « **on:** February 18, 2010, 12:52:50 pm »

Hi,

I've been searching this forum & can not seem to find anyone who is having a problem like I'm having. When I load the printer, it seems to load roll paper correctly however when I send an image to print the first thing the printer does is back the paper out of the printer to the point where the printer can not get hold of the paper to advance it. The printer then seems to think there is paper moving through it & sprays ink, creating a bit of a mess. Has anyone ever heard of this, or better yet solved this problem?
Thanks
Brian

ValeryAyapov · « **Reply #1 on:** February 18, 2010, 01:46:17 pm »

Well, z3100 is very sensitive when it comes to paper loading. But never heard of this.
Try to reset the printer from control panel menu for beginning. The most light way to improve any electronic device.

It seems that there is something with driver settings or probably with paper positioning sensor (dirty?).

dandeliondigital · « **Reply #2 on:** February 19, 2010, 10:05:58 am »

Hi,
I also experience this quite frequently. It is very frustrating because if you fail to catch the feed failure you will dump a lot of ink and make a giant mess! Been there, and was so frustrated!

What you can do as a work around is this (any better ideas out there-please let me know). After you load the paper, you need to go to the MOVE PAPER command on the front panel. I usually press the advance about 4-5 times which gives the paper just enough edge the start printing correctly. The problem occurs with stiffer or heavier weight papers with built in curl that locks the paper behind the plastic edge that is behind the roller. This is something I wish HP would allow us to adjust because I cannot see any other way to deal with this issue. The amount of paper that you advance should be something you could automatically set. As it is now, you have to remember to do this after every job prints, or else you go through the horrible experience of making a mess and failing to print your job.

As I said earlier, any other Z users experiencing this have any better ways to deal with this issue.

BTW, my printer never did this with the original hard black rollers that came with it. This only occurred after my rollers were changed to the newer tan ones, so that I could print a number of papers without destroying them with roller marks.

So long for now, TOM

Quote from: Miller

Hi,

I've been searching this forum & can not seem to find anyone who is having a problem like I'm having. When I load the printer, it seems to load roll paper correctly however when I send an image to print the first thing the printer does is back the paper out of the printer to the point where the printer can not get hold of the paper to advance it. The printer then seems to think there is paper moving through it & sprays ink, creating a bit of a mess. Has anyone ever heard of this, or better yet solved this problem?
Thanks
Brian

rdonson · « **Reply #3 on:** February 19, 2010, 10:47:16 am »

I've had a similar experience with my base Z3100 but it never started spraying ink, it just say that paper isn't detected. It only happens to me when I have a paper with a LOT of curl. This is usually at the end of a roll with 2" cores. I generally unload the roll, remove as much of the curl as possible then feed it back in again and it works fine from there.

I wonder what firmware people are using when experiencing this problem.

dandeliondigital · « **Reply #4 on:** February 20, 2010, 09:01:34 am »

Hi Ron,
I’ll check and let you know later which firmware is installed in the printer. I just downloaded a collection of updates which includes a firmware update which I need to do. So much to do and so little time!

BTW, IIMA, does your unit have the tan pinch rollers?

Thanks, and so long for now, TOM

Quote from: rdonson

I've had a similar experience with my base Z3100 but it never started spraying ink, it just say that paper isn't detected. It only happens to me when I have a paper with a LOT of curl. This is usually at the end of a roll with 2" cores. I generally unload the roll, remove as much of the curl as possible then feed it back in again and it works fine from there.

I wonder what firmware people are using when experiencing this problem.

peter.s. · « **Reply #5 on:** February 20, 2010, 09:21:15 am »

I had the paper sensor replaced on mine. The HP tech said it was a common problem. But I had the problem that the printer didn't detect when the paper was loaded. Anyway I'd check the sensor first so that there is nothing stuck in there. It's an optical fork sensor but it has a spring loaded mechanical lever.

David Saffir · « **Reply #6 on:** February 20, 2010, 04:27:07 pm »

Hi - I would also like to know firmware version. I've had issues at end of roll, but they've been easily handled by reducing paper curl as noted previously.

David

dandeliondigital · « **Reply #7 on:** February 20, 2010, 04:36:23 pm »

Hi peter s,
Is there a description anywhere of how to check the functionality of the sensor. My HP care pack is on the last 3 months so I’d love to know if this is why I’m in trouble with a few thicker/firmer papers, but this only occurs with non-HP papers and from past experience that fact hasn’t been any help in getting issues resolved with HP. It’s a rather large excuse that HP doesn’t cover non-HP papers.

If you could post it or send me the info <tom@dandeliondigital.com>, or point me to a link with the info, I would be very grateful.

Thanks, and so long for now, TOM

Quote from: peter.s.

I had the paper sensor replaced on mine. The HP tech said it was a common problem. But I had the problem that the printer didn't detect when the paper was loaded. Anyway I'd check the sensor first so that there is nothing stuck in there. It's an optical fork sensor but it has a spring loaded mechanical lever.

Ernst Dinkla · « **Reply #8 on:** February 21, 2010, 06:50:01 am »

Quote from: Miller

Hi,

I've been searching this forum & can not seem to find anyone who is having a problem like I'm having. When I load the printer, it seems to load roll paper correctly however when I send an image to print the first thing the printer does is back the paper out of the printer to the point where the printer can not get hold of the paper to advance it. The printer then seems to think there is paper moving through it & sprays ink, creating a bit of a mess. Has anyone ever heard of this, or better yet solved this problem?
Thanks
Brian

I don't think it is the sensor at the insert side of the paper feeding. First of all that is a very simple one and is more in yes/no functionality than measuring a position of the paper or its movements. It just feels that there is a paper inserted or not or no longer.

The red (infrared?) sensor at the head carriage locates the front and side edges of the paper and measures the right side of the sheet to see if the transport path is correct. If all is correct it will know the front edge location and issue a command to the paper transport to pull the sheet back to the clamps where it stays at approx 4 mm in front of the clamp till printing starts. Presumably it goes wrong at that last command. Either the sensor doesn't locate the paper edge correctly in that last stage or the transport back is shifting the paper too far back or something else happens at that moment. A curl at the rear end of the paper giving an extra pull force on the sheet like described in another reply, the clamping force of the rollers not enough to stop that. The sensor itself can not measure the edge when it is so close to the clamps so it has to rely on the last measurement and a correct paper transport for the say 20 mm transport backwards.

Does it happen with all the media preset choices? I was thinking if a transport speed for a given media preset is totally off limits the backward movement could be too much and the edge could pass the clamps.

met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla

Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/

peter.s. · « **Reply #9 on:** February 21, 2010, 07:31:14 am »

Quote from: dandeliondigital

Hi peter s,
Is there a description anywhere of how to check the functionality of the sensor. My HP care pack is on the last 3 months so I’d love to know if this is why I’m in trouble with a few thicker/firmer papers, but this only occurs with non-HP papers and from past experience that fact hasn’t been any help in getting issues resolved with HP. It’s a rather large excuse that HP doesn’t cover non-HP papers.

If you could post it or send me the info <tom@dandeliondigital.com>, or point me to a link with the info, I would be very grateful.

Thanks, and so long for now, TOM

Hi Tom,

I can't say off hand but if you search on this forum you'll find the service manual for the z3100. There are a number of diagnostics to run and I know some of them cover the sensors. If you can solve your problem that way I don't know but it might be worth a try.

I also remember reading somewhere that there might be a problem using paper that have "fuzzy" edges. I think some of the later firmware has an option for loading the paper manually and ignoring any skew errors.

dandeliondigital · « **Reply #10 on:** February 21, 2010, 10:10:17 am »

Hi peter.s,
I’ll check into those diagnostics for the sensors in the service manual.

I really think it’s a physical problem though because of this fact: There is a point along the paper path just behind the spot the paper “zeros” itself or “parks“ itself after feeding correctly that is a “ledge”. It appears to me that the paper either offers resistance or slips of the edge when it begins to feed and that is where the curl traps it behind the edge it had been resting upon by about what seems like a millimeter or two. Once trapped it cannot advance.

Also with one very stiff and thick paper with a curl, there appears to be inadequate tension on the paper to pull/push it forward past the pinch roller with the tan rollers. If I stand there and manually “help it” get going all is well, but you can imagine the pain involved with that.

So I’ve found that by giving the edge enough overlap at the start (by using the move paper advance) it doesn’t get trapped and will advance correctly be it thick and curly or just prone to slipping of the edge.

All HP papers and thin paper work faultlessly so that’s been my predicament. I didn’t even bother to call tech support about this one.

Thanks for the pointers, and so long for now, TOM

Quote from: peter.s.

find the service manual for the z3100. There are a number of diagnostics to run and I know some of them cover the sensors. If you can solve your problem that way I don't know but it might be worth a try.

dandeliondigital · « **Reply #11 on:** February 22, 2010, 03:34:03 pm »

Hi David,
Sorry it took so long, but I can finally tell you the firmware installed in my HP Z3100ps GP 44 for a while now, and I have had the feed problem with this FW installed:

TR12PS_7.0.0.3PS3017.102-02.95R OS TR_2.0.11

The latest from HP that I downloaded last week:
7.0.0.3-52 from 17 JUN 2009
reads as
TR12PS_07_00_00_3
on the disk image:
TR12-TR12PS_07_00_00-3-2_mvl40-x86-opt_B.dmg

which I just now tried to install results in a crash.

Don't you just love HP alpha-numeric soup ;-)

Sigh.

Repeat: computers are fun.

So long for now, TOM

PS: Anyone else get this to happen?

Quote from: David Saffir

Hi - I would also like to know firmware version. I've had issues at end of roll, but they've been easily handled by reducing paper curl as noted previously.

Miller · « **Reply #12 on:** February 23, 2010, 07:56:33 am »

Thanks guys-
I have the most current firmware, uploaded last week. I'll look in the service manual on checking the sensor. Does anyone have a good source for ordering spare parts, such as sensors?
I was wondering about advancing the paper manually, I'll try that this morning.
I'll let you all know what happens. For the most part this has been a fantastic printer but when there is a problem, HP does not offer much help.
Thanks
Brian

Miller · « **Reply #13 on:** February 23, 2010, 09:00:40 am »

Ok more info-
I tried Tom's MOVE PAPER technique & it worked. So I did a paper advance calibration hoping that would do the trick. No problems so far. After the calibration I was going to try a print but noticed that the paper was held in the usual place, and unlikely to go forward. So to avoid any issues I tried MOVE PAPER again but this time it would not advance. I opened the cover & pressed down on the rollers while pressing the move button & it caught. So apparently there is not enough tension over the rear wheel to get the paper to advance.
Any ideas how to make this printer actually usable?
Thanks again...
Brian

Ernst Dinkla · « **Reply #14 on:** February 23, 2010, 11:09:16 am »

Quote from: Miller

So apparently there is not enough tension over the rear wheel to get the paper to advance.
Any ideas how to make this printer actually usable?

Brian

The service manual is on the Z3100 Wiki pages. There are several springs involved, from the paper release handle to the individual springs on the pinch rollers. Looks like you need special tools to get there.

Check first whether the left side of the printer has pinch rollers not properly assembled that could reduce clamping force at the right side. My Z3200 has probably a bit more clamping force at the right side as rolls shift to the left in printing. I tweaked the printer a bit to control that flaw.

met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla

Dinkla Gallery Canvas Wrap Actions for Photoshop
http://www.pigment-print.com/dinklacanvaswraps/index.html

Miller · « **Reply #15 on:** February 25, 2010, 09:51:24 am »

Thanks Ernst,
I looked through the service manual & it only tells how to replace the pinch wheels. So I opened up the printer & they look ok. How did you adjust the tension? There is nothing about that in the service manual.
I just ordered a new pinchewheel assembly. Maybe that will do the trick.
Thanks a lot,
Brian

Ernst Dinkla · « **Reply #16 on:** February 25, 2010, 10:45:53 am »

Quote from: Miller

Thanks Ernst,
I looked through the service manual & it only tells how to replace the pinch wheels. So I opened up the printer & they look ok. How did you adjust the tension? There is nothing about that in the service manual.
I just ordered a new pinchewheel assembly. Maybe that will do the trick.
Thanks a lot,
Brian

Brian,

I suggested the service manual to get an idea of how the tension is set on the pinch wheels. Individual spring per roller. The paper handle pulls all the pinch wheels up in the free state and releases them when down. My guess is that something there goes wrong in your case and not on the pinch wheels themselves.

I actually didn't adjust the tension but put a larger disk of polycarbonate on the roll spindle adapter at the left side that almost touches the printer at the back. With 3" core rolls that gives just a bit more resistance to the roll paper shifting to the left (me standing in front of the printer). I'm sure the Z3200 actually has more transport friction at the right side and by that pulls the paper faster through than at the left side hence the shift to left. Otherwise the rolls I get lately have a paper that is a bit thicker at the right side which I doubt as it happens with more papers. There may be a more sophisticated way to solve it but it goes alright for now.

met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla

Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/

dandeliondigital · « **Reply #17 on:** February 25, 2010, 11:26:46 am »

Hi Brian,
This thread has been so timely because the last 2 papers I’ve had to use are causing this issue.

Sometimes when I issue the “Move Paper“ command, I actually have to push the paper a bit to get it to catch (get beyond the row of plastic glides that it gets stuck behind.

PRINTER SCHEMATIC
L side------------------------------------------------------R side
-----------------------------------------V>>push here<<V
---------------------------------------------- VVVVV
(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((()))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) =roll of paper
____________________________________________=paper end
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||=comb of plastic “finger glides”
****ink is spilled here when paper fails to advance******
--------------------------------------------------------------------

What kind of paper are you having the issue with?

So long for now, TOM

Quote from: Miller

Ok more info-
I tried Tom's MOVE PAPER technique & it worked. So I did a paper advance calibration hoping that would do the trick. No problems so far. After the calibration I was going to try a print but noticed that the paper was held in the usual place, and unlikely to go forward. So to avoid any issues I tried MOVE PAPER again but this time it would not advance. I opened the cover & pressed down on the rollers while pressing the move button & it caught. So apparently there is not enough tension over the rear wheel to get the paper to advance.
Any ideas how to make this printer actually usable?
Thanks again...
Brian

Miller · « **Reply #18 on:** February 25, 2010, 12:26:01 pm »

Thanks Ernst,

I have some ideas now to increase the downward pressure. If anything works I'll post it.
And Tom, I love the diagram- that is exactly where I press down to make it advance. If it were just me I would just use this technique to get the paper moving but this printer is used by a bunch of college students & I don't want them opening up the printer & pressing down on anything.
The paper that has been causing these problems is Hahnemuhle Baryta.
Thanks again,
Brian

Miller · « **Reply #19 on:** April 01, 2010, 09:12:47 am »

So it's been a few weeks & I've been away from the printer but I got back to it yesterday. I replaced all the pinch wheel rollers & that totally fixed the problem. Be warned, you need really small fingers to do this.
Thanks for all the help
Brian

Author Topic: HP DJ z3100 paper loading problem (Read 8717 times)