External audio Recorder

[fredjeang]

Hi,
I'm planning to work more seriously the audio recording on my movies (audio is by far where I experiment the worst difficulties) and would like to use an external audio recorder. (some cameras like the EP1 for example don't have audio conexion, and as it has been said in some post here, the external recorder is by far the best solution).
Any recomendation good price/quality from your experience?

Thank you,

Fred.

[Christopher Sanderson]

The Zoom H4n - highly recommended

Here is the description at B&H

The Rycote fuzzy mic cover is essential for use outdoors.

[fredjeang]

The Zoom H4n - highly recommended

Here is the description at B&H

The Rycote fuzzy mic cover is essential for use outdoors.

Thank you Chris.
And it is affordable!!    Exactly what I needed.

Fred.

[Christopher Sanderson]

One caveat: there are reports of cross-over or over-print between the on-board H4n mics and any input through the XLRs. I haven't had any problems so far but there is chat about it. Testing is required. I'll let you know.

[gerk]

One caveat: there are reports of cross-over or over-print between the on-board H4n mics and any input through the XLRs. I haven't had any problems so far but there is chat about it. Testing is required. I'll let you know.

If this is the case I've not noticed it to date and I've used this unit for quite a few shoots.  Typically I'm capturing mostly the same audio on both sets of inputs so in my case I guess it would be hard to tell if there is in fact any crossover.

[mikekobal]

marantz 661, had both Edirol,  h4n, did not like  them. 661 is a keeper.

[dirkpieters]

marantz 661, had both Edirol,  h4n, did not like  them. 661 is a keeper.

Hi Mike What about the Tascam?
the one with XLR inputs

[Morgan_Moore]

Hi Mike What about the Tascam?
the one with XLR inputs

I had the tascam for a couple of weeks

Good things..

cheap
good spec
line out into the camera
two batteries

bad things
flimsy build (probably no worse than any other sub $1000 recorder)
did not always boot

I then bought a Sound Devices 702

Makes my hasselblad H look pro-sumer and takes the same batteries as my digiback which I have 6 of - will outlast generations of DSLRs and I believe be cheap in the long run

[K.C.]

Plenty of discussion on the topic here: http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/all-things-audio/

and here: http://www.cinema5d.com/viewforum.php?f=32

[Morgan_Moore]

Yes, there is no doubt that the Sound Devices recorders are amongst the most rugged and professional (and best sounding), together with Nagra and Aaton. Totally different price class though.

Indeed a different price class - the cost of a couple of lenses, most of us probably have $10k of lenses - I certainly do

As I fiddle with DSLR movie making it is endless hassle, batteries going flat - monitors you cant see in the sun whateever, flimsy connections- my nikon D3 does stills for two days on a battery - not 45 mins like a 5d in movie mode

Then I had a kind of revelation

things like the Zoom H4n are like compact cameras

Of course its a hassle - im playing with toys not tools

I woulndt work professionally taking stills with a compact - why would I take the same approach with my motion kit

I use a solid proffesional thing for my day job - mainly a D3  that has served me daily for three years

I think nothing of buying pocket wizards not chinese copies they just cost what they cost, the D3 costs what it cost, a 70-200 costs what it costs - i wouldnt go for a sigma version

I then decided that I should take the same approach to kitting out for motion - the Sound Devices costs what it costs but is the right tool

Your either IN or OUT - IMO

And getting IN costs what it costs -

S

[K.C.]

Your point is valid Sam but there are affordable options without going the entire SD route.

I use a Sound Devices 302 recording into the Marantz PMD661. The pres on the PMD661 are better than most pro video cameras but I want the flexibility of the mixer. By comparison the Zoom is a 6MP point and shoot.

[K.C.]

http://www.sounddevices.com/products/302master.htm

http://www.d-mpro.com/users/folder.asp?FolderID=4405

[ahphoto]

I have been shooting video with my 5Dmk 11 recently and use the edirol / roland r-09hr with binaural mics worn as you would headphones, the results are amazing. I picked up the mics for about $60 in B&H. The 360 surround sound effect is wonderful and the edirol / roland r-09hr is a great recorder, I really don't need XLRs with the 5D2.

Anthony Hobbs

[Nill Toulme]

How about a $99 Zoom H1?

Nill

[Peter McLennan]

I just bought a Zoom H1, having previously owned the original Zoom.  The sound quality is excellent, the microphones are very sensitive and the overall value is very good.

It's very easy to use.  Good display and good auto or manual modes.

It has no XLR inputs.  I don't care.  It does have a mini line-in.

It's absolutely useless outdoors without a proper wind sock unless there's zero wind.  Even indoors, moving the recorder through the air by hand generates low frequency noise.

Its plastic case makes handling noise problematic.  The slightest hand motion goes straight to your recording.

[Craig Murphy]

Got an Iphone?  Get a recording app and hook an external mic to it.

[bcooter]

If you think of sound as lighting and give it the same attention, then you'll understand the complexities of good sound.

Whether running a dialog interview of a full fledged dialog movie production you'll face the same challenges. 

Obviously the principle characters need to be understood cleanly and professionally, but ambient sound (if there is ambience beyond a studio) has to be recorded with the same attention, which usually requires multiple recorders and recording ambient sound wild so you can place it in as required.

This usually requires multiple recorders, and/or multiple tracks so you can separate sound and place it into the edit with logic and art.   

A professional sound technician can be a lifesaver though technician is probably no the right job description as someone who monitors sound must listen for the art, tonality, inflection as well as the overall quality of the take.

We now see hundreds (thousands) of new videos that are shot with competence, though the sound is dismal.  You can here click settings on the camera, ambient noise that interferes with the dialog and ambient/foley sound that doesn't really match the scene.

If your doing documentary work, you may get away with the "realness" of this, but usually it's just a distraction and with the new versions of dslrs, even the new prosumer sound device, there just isn't enough sound inputs to record proper multi channel sound.

3 are a minimum, 4 is preferable and even if you get a clean take, with multiple subjects you still stand a great chance in doing it again in looping/dubbing.

Though these new hand held sound devices work well, they don't really zoom properly and don't replace a person dedicated to sound on set, will not replace a sound edit for the final piece.

Sound is important and just like a good to great camera will never replace a visual artist that knows how to work it for the best effect, sound has the same requirements.

IMO

BC


P.S.  One of the best sound devices is the old Canon XL1 standard def camera.  Mounted with a good zoom mic, the sound quality the camera can record is simply amazing.  It may sound crazy to run a separate camera as a sound device, but it does work and allows you to frame and zoom the sound in a visual manner.

[Peter McLennan]

Sound is important and just like a good to great camera will never replace a visual artist that knows how to work it for the best effect, sound has the same requirements.

IMHO, in most cases, it's just as important as picture.