Harman FB AL 25x17 cut sheets not laying flat.

[Bill Koenig]

I've just matted and framed a B&W picture printed on Harman FB AL on a 25x17 cut sheet. I really like this paper, I get nice deep blacks. The unexpected problem, at this size, it won't lay flat, sort of a wavy blotchy look when light reflects off the surface. I didn't have this problem with the 13x19 cut sheets.
Has anyone else had this problem? If so, what did you do? Can this paper be dry mounted?

BTW, I'm using a T hinge on the back of the mat.

[madmanchan]

This is always an issue with larger sheets in areas of humidity fluctuations. I don't see any reason it can't be dry mounted or cold mounted in some form.

[dwood]

I've just matted and framed a B&W picture printed on Harman FB AL on a 25x17 cut sheet. I really like this paper, I get nice deep blacks. The unexpected problem, at this size, it won't lay flat, sort of a wavy blotchy look when light reflects off the surface. I didn't have this problem with the 13x19 cut sheets.
Has anyone else had this problem? If so, what did you do? Can this paper be dry mounted?

BTW, I'm using a T hinge on the back of the mat.

Bill - I've had the very same issues with larger prints, especially with Harman FB AL. It seems particularly prone to wave/curl in certain temp./humidity conditions. Like you, I was t-hinging. I've since started using the 3M 568 positionable mounting adhesive sheets to mount larger images and life is a whole lot better. Dry mounting would work well too, I suspect. It's worth trying something other than t-hinging as this paper, especially with b&w, is stunning.

[Bill Koenig]

Bill - I've had the very same issues with larger prints, especially with Harman FB AL. It seems particularly prone to wave/curl in certain temp./humidity conditions. Like you, I was t-hinging. I've since started using the 3M 568 positionable mounting adhesive sheets to mount larger images and life is a whole lot better. Dry mounting would work well too, I suspect. It's worth trying something other than t-hinging as this paper, especially with b&w, is stunning.

Doug,

Thanks for the reply, are you mounting to regular foam core? I've tried that with self adhesive foam core, which isn't archival, but that ended up warping as well.
I've heard of Gator board and Mighty Core, these aren't supposed to warp at all, but are very expensive. Anyone use this stuff?

[Robcat]

Doug,

Thanks for the reply, are you mounting to regular foam core? I've tried that with self adhesive foam core, which isn't archival, but that ended up warping as well.
I've heard of Gator board and Mighty Core, these aren't supposed to warp at all, but are very expensive. Anyone use this stuff?

I've noticed the same issues with the Harman 17 x 25 (same with similar sized prints from roll paper) not lying flat with my usual hinge mounting, and had my framer try dry mounting to museum board. The result was not pleasant as although the print was of course quite flat, the surface acquired an odd ripply appearance that was faint but noticeable. My framer said she'd seen the same thing with other large glossy prints (as have I with other papers). I've decided to live with the slight natural waviness of the paper (which customers don't seem to mind) and minimize it by making sure to leave at least 1" of paper border around the image so that the mat can hold it down. I do like the paper otherwise.
Rob

[Ken]

Same problem with Canson Baryta Photographique... driving me almost sane! I walked into the gallery where 17 of my prints are hanging and almost cardio-arrested. Every one of them was wavy. Oddly (as someone here pointed out), no one viewing or buying them even mentioned it... not cheap, either! Maybe framing and mounting manufacturers don't see it as much of a problem, and that's why nothing new has come onto the market in decades. It sure as heck bothers ME!

[nilo]

Here too nobody, except me, seems to notice, even at very close inspection (or maybe because of the latter). I do also dislike very much those waves on the 17x25 Harman FB AL warm-tone. 17x22(25) is my standard size, and I don't get waves with all the papers at that size. Still it is my favorite paper for color and b&w (blacks are so black and its so sharp ;-). I usually get 3 waves lengthwise (starting on the top of one and finishing on the top of one). A firmly pressed mat usually helps. I am used to print with a 2" border, which helps  to hold the paper flat(ter) and maybe reduces the waves (as opposed to print right up to the border. BTW do you still print with borders of 2 or 3" ? That's what I was taught to do, for save handling and also for conversational considerations).

nino

[hubell]

I've noticed the same issues with the Harman 17 x 25 (same with similar sized prints from roll paper) not lying flat with my usual hinge mounting, and had my framer try dry mounting to museum board. The result was not pleasant as although the print was of course quite flat, the surface acquired an odd ripply appearance that was faint but noticeable. My framer said she'd seen the same thing with other large glossy prints (as have I with other papers). I've decided to live with the slight natural waviness of the paper (which customers don't seem to mind) and minimize it by making sure to leave at least 1" of paper border around the image so that the mat can hold it down. I do like the paper otherwise.
Rob

I have had the same problems with one of my framers that tried to dry mount a 20x48 print on Premium Luster. At an angle, you could see an odd "egg carton" type surface irregularity. I never had these issues with my other framer that cold mounted my prints. I really dislike the waviness that you inevitably get with larger prints if the print is not mounted to a flat surface.

[JohnBrew]

What dwood said. I've had much experience using this larger Harman size. It's a real pita for sure. You want to use it because the results are beautiful, but the agro sent me to other brands. Even after using all the methods mentioned for mounting the Harman and thinking I had the problem solved, I'd go back to check a mounted piece months later and it would demonstrate a new wave somewhere. Admittedly I live in a quite humid area, but I just don't have similar problems with Hahnemuhle, Ilford or even Epson papers. FWIW, I continued to use the other sizes of Harman only to find that even smallish 8 1/2 x 11 papers developed problems. Damn shame more manufacturers don't make that 17 x 25 cut size.

[Jack Flesher]

I have the same problem with large sheets of any Baryta paper initially, but then after a few weeks the print is back to laying flat.  I assume it is because the humidity inside the frame stabilized throughout, but then I live on the West coast with relatively moderate humidity...  

I used to use 3M photo mount (repositionable for a short term spray mount) and it worked very well but needed to be rolled. It was good, but not a hot press mount. I have hot-mounted Harman using low temp Bienfang mounting tissue and it looks awesome, especially for un-matted prints, but is impractical for larger framed prints.  I now use hinges exclusively for large framed prints, and live with the slight undulations.