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Author Topic: Policies on 32-64bit software conversion?  (Read 7859 times)

walter.sk

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Policies on 32-64bit software conversion?
« on: February 09, 2010, 11:45:04 AM »

This is a followup post to my questions on upgrading my computer and OS from WinXP 32 bit to Win7 64 bit.  I have looked at several publisher's websites and am confused as to their policies concerning a change from 32 bit to 64 bit versions of the software.  I almost choked when I made a list of my most used photo editing software, contemplating having to shell out for the upgrade to 64 bit versions.  I will list the software here, hoping that other LuLa posters will know the policies for at least some of the software.  I would like to keep the same versions but the 64-bit rather than the 32-bit types, rather than upgrade to a newer version (e. g., CS4 to CS5, were it out yet).

1: CS4, LR 2.5
2: NIK Software (Color Efex 3, DFine 2, Silver Efex Pro, Viveza 2)
3: Qimage
4: Focus Magic
5:Photomatix Pro
6: HDR Photostudio
7: ProShow Producer
8: Topaz Labs
9: DXo 6 elite

In general, will 32 bit software also run under a 64 bit OS?
« Last Edit: February 09, 2010, 11:47:07 AM by walter.sk »
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Jeremy Payne

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Policies on 32-64bit software conversion?
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2010, 11:56:08 AM »

Quote from: walter.sk
In general, will 32 bit software also run under a 64 bit OS?

Yes, most definitely ... it will just be bound by the same memory limits it has under the 32 bit OS.

I don't think you need to upgrade LR to get the 64 bit version (or Photomatix) ... not sure about the others.
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mmurph

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Policies on 32-64bit software conversion?
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2010, 12:02:58 PM »

Quote
In general, will 32 bit software also run under a 64 bit OS?

Yes. A little more complicated for device drivers, but also "yes"

More info at  Infoworld

Quotes:

Q. Can I run 32-bit Windows applications under 64-bit Windows 7?
A. Yes. Virtually any 32-bit Windows application that is supported on Windows XP can run unmodified under 64-bit Windows. This is made possible by a technology known informally as "Win32 on Win64" (WOW for short), which translates 32-bit API calls from a legacy Win32 executable into 64-bit API calls that can be serviced by the native subsystems of 64-bit Windows 7. The net result is that 32-bit applications run seamlessly on 64-bit Windows and, thanks to optimizations in current generation Intel and AMD CPUs, at or near full speed.
[/


Q. Can I use a 32-bit device driver under 64-bit Windows 7?
A. No......  However, while 32-bit drivers are not directly supported in 64-bit Windows 7, 64-bit Windows 7 users can install 32-bit drivers in Windows XP Mode and use USB-based printers and other USB-based legacy devices with the Windows XP virtual machine

Q. What exactly is Windows XP Mode, and how do I get it?
A. The simple answer is that Windows XP Mode is a virtual machine containing Windows XP SP3 that runs under Windows Virtual PC 7. It is available as a free download to users of Windows 7 Professional, Ultimate, and Enterprise editions.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2010, 12:03:59 PM by mmurph »
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englishm

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Policies on 32-64bit software conversion?
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2010, 12:03:32 PM »

CS4 and LR2.5 will run just fine under Win7 64  So will ProShow Producer.  Can't attest to the others.  I have been running under 64 bit windows (VISTA) for some time now, so my memory may be a bit hazy, but I don't think you can directly upgrade from Win XP to a 64 bit variant.  You will have to wipe the drive and reinstall the OS and all of your apps.  That being the case, the CS4 and LR installers will detect the presence of a 64-bit OS and install the correct versions.  Proshow is (I think) a 32-bit app, but works perfectly under Win7-64.

Before you go the 64-bit route (you may already know this) be sure to check the manufacturer web-sites for all of your hardware peripherals for driver updates.  Not just printers and video cards, but also your motherboard manufacturer, to see if any BIOS updates or chip set driver upgrades are needed.

Win 7 64 is easily the most stable Win OS I've ever used... well worth the time and money.


Quote from: walter.sk
In general, will 32 bit software also run under a 64 bit OS?

The answer is, "It depends".  Check the software author's web-site.  Where they are needed, most if not all 64 bit compatible upgrades, to the extent they exist, should be free downloads.  I haven't found anything I truly need that won't run under Win7-64.  Some older programs, mostly utilities, have refused to cooperate, but so far no "show stoppers".


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walter.sk

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« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2010, 12:22:13 PM »

Wow!

Thanks, Jeremy, Mark and MMurph for the fast replies!

Your comments make me very hopeful, and I'm now on the verge of making the change.
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mmurph

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Policies on 32-64bit software conversion?
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2010, 02:31:17 PM »

Win 7 64 bit really is a nice, fast, stable OS. You might want to look through all of the aps and drivers though to make sure you can live with any "bumps. "

I know, for example, there were printers driver issues and color profile "mismatches" with a other recent OS upgrade. I can't speak to the specifics of all your aps.

One nice thing when installing Win 7 is that it automatically found almost all of my device drivers. That is a bit of a feat when you consider the "heterogenerity" of things it runs on, low end to high end.

Have fun!

Cheers,
Michael
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mcbroomf

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Policies on 32-64bit software conversion?
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2010, 07:00:29 PM »

You can download a 64 bit version of Photomatix and use your current serial number.

Mike
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PeterAit

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Policies on 32-64bit software conversion?
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2010, 08:21:34 PM »

Quote from: walter.sk
This is a followup post to my questions on upgrading my computer and OS from WinXP 32 bit to Win7 64 bit.  I have looked at several publisher's websites and am confused as to their policies concerning a change from 32 bit to 64 bit versions of the software.  I almost choked when I made a list of my most used photo editing software, contemplating having to shell out for the upgrade to 64 bit versions.  I will list the software here, hoping that other LuLa posters will know the policies for at least some of the software.  I would like to keep the same versions but the 64-bit rather than the 32-bit types, rather than upgrade to a newer version (e. g., CS4 to CS5, were it out yet).

1: CS4, LR 2.5
2: NIK Software (Color Efex 3, DFine 2, Silver Efex Pro, Viveza 2)
3: Qimage
4: Focus Magic
5:Photomatix Pro
6: HDR Photostudio
7: ProShow Producer
8: Topaz Labs
9: DXo 6 elite

In general, will 32 bit software also run under a 64 bit OS?

CS4 and LR provide both 32 and 64 bit versions on the install CD - no extra charge. When you install on the 64 bit OS, both versions are installed. Your old plug-ins will continue to work with the 32 bit versions of PS and LR. Even though the 32 bit version of PS cannot make use of more than 4 GB of memory, unlike the 64 bit version, it will still have more memory available to it than on a 32 bit OS (assuming you have more than 4 GB of RAM). This is because the OS and other programs can access memory above 4GB, leaving more of the base 4 GB available to PS. My max RAM available to 32 bit PS was 1.8GB when run on Vista 32 bit with 4 GB of RAM. Now, on a Win 7 64 bit system with 12 GB of RAM, PS 32 bit has 3.2 GB available.

Bottom line, to me, is that there's no need to upgrade to 64 bit versions of all my plug-ins because the 32 bit versions and 32 bit PS work just fine on Win 7 64 bit. If you edit truly huge files, it might be different.
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Peter
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walter.sk

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Policies on 32-64bit software conversion?
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2010, 09:15:31 PM »

Quote from: PeterAit
CS4 and LR provide both 32 and 64 bit versions on the install CD - no extra charge. When you install on the 64 bit OS, both versions are installed. Your old plug-ins will continue to work with the 32 bit versions of PS and LR. Even though the 32 bit version of PS cannot make use of more than 4 GB of memory, unlike the 64 bit version, it will still have more memory available to it than on a 32 bit OS (assuming you have more than 4 GB of RAM). This is because the OS and other programs can access memory above 4GB, leaving more of the base 4 GB available to PS. My max RAM available to 32 bit PS was 1.8GB when run on Vista 32 bit with 4 GB of RAM. Now, on a Win 7 64 bit system with 12 GB of RAM, PS 32 bit has 3.2 GB available.

Bottom line, to me, is that there's no need to upgrade to 64 bit versions of all my plug-ins because the 32 bit versions and 32 bit PS work just fine on Win 7 64 bit. If you edit truly huge files, it might be different.
Thanks, Peter, and Mike as well for the previous response.

Your comment that even the 32 bit PS will be able to use more RAM with the 64 bit OS than with the 32 bit OS makes sense.  At any rate, I am feeling encouraged enough so that I will do the upgrade.

Is there any reason to get the Windows 7 Ultimate rather than the Professional version?
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Farmer

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Policies on 32-64bit software conversion?
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2010, 01:22:27 AM »

Quote from: walter.sk
Thanks, Peter, and Mike as well for the previous response.

Your comment that even the 32 bit PS will be able to use more RAM with the 64 bit OS than with the 32 bit OS makes sense.  At any rate, I am feeling encouraged enough so that I will do the upgrade.

Is there any reason to get the Windows 7 Ultimate rather than the Professional version?

There's not a big price difference.  Ultimate gives you Bit Locker and additional language options.

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows7/products/compare

Personally, I went with Ultimate, but you can go with Pro and then upgrade to Ultimate if you like at a later point as another option.
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Phil Brown

mmurph

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Policies on 32-64bit software conversion?
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2010, 09:10:09 AM »

If you are able to, install Win 7 on a brand new hard drive.

If you have extra drives available before you start, make a clone of your existing setup first. Even a 200GB IDE drive in a USB enclosure should work fine.

 "Acronis" is free cloning software for Western Digital and Seagate users that is available at their respective web sites.  Then store the clone and the original drive with the old OS fully staged, at least for a while.  Just take it out of the machine and set it aside. (Copy any files you need to an online "transfer" location of course.)  I actually reverted to my old XP install on one machine when I forgot about a project that was in progress there ....  

The basic Win 7 install has taken me about 20-30 minutes in most cases.

After you have installed Win 7 and have your basic applicationss installed, background set to neutral grey, desktop arranged as you like it, defaults set, etc., make a clone of the new Win 7 install on an additional HDD (maybe the clone from the old OS if you are tight on drives.)   It makes a great "restore point" if ever needed, say you crash a HDD and need to get back up fast so that you can do some Photoshop work on a calibrated system, etc.  

Much easier than doing a reinstall from scratch, more reliable than most software or OS restores. You can then "reapply" any more recent backups. I will usually label the drive, then just leave it in the machine disconnected from the data and power cables if I have the space. My own version of the "Dell", et al hidden "restore" partition.
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PeterAit

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Policies on 32-64bit software conversion?
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2010, 11:34:37 AM »

Quote from: mmurph
If you are able to, install Win 7 on a brand new hard drive.

If you have extra drives available before you start, make a clone of your existing setup first. Even a 200GB IDE drive in a USB enclosure should work fine.

 "Acronis" is free cloning software for Western Digital and Seagate users that is available at their respective web sites.  Then store the clone and the original drive with the old OS fully staged, at least for a while.  Just take it out of the machine and set it aside. (Copy any files you need to an online "transfer" location of course.)  I actually reverted to my old XP install on one machine when I forgot about a project that was in progress there ....  

The basic Win 7 install has taken me about 20-30 minutes in most cases.

After you have installed Win 7 and have your basic applicationss installed, background set to neutral grey, desktop arranged as you like it, defaults set, etc., make a clone of the new Win 7 install on an additional HDD (maybe the clone from the old OS if you are tight on drives.)   It makes a great "restore point" if ever needed, say you crash a HDD and need to get back up fast so that you can do some Photoshop work on a calibrated system, etc.  

Much easier than doing a reinstall from scratch, more reliable than most software or OS restores. You can then "reapply" any more recent backups. I will usually label the drive, then just leave it in the machine disconnected from the data and power cables if I have the space. My own version of the "Dell", et al hidden "restore" partition.

FWIW, Win 7 includes system backup (disk clone) software, at least Win 7 Home Premium does, so there's no need for a 3rd party program to do this.
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Peter
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walter.sk

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Policies on 32-64bit software conversion?
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2010, 04:31:42 PM »

Those are all good ideas.  I've decided to do the OS upgrade to Win7-64, and keep the 4Gb RAM I already have until I see how things run.

But this time around I'm going to take my time, making sure that I get everything backed up.  I am also making a spreadsheet with all of my programs, their serial numbers, passwords for forums and websites, etc, so that I will have all of that in one spot.  I will also download any drivers or upgrades for programs where available in 64-bit versions.  I really hate the process of reinstalling everything, but I will try to make it as smooth as I can.

I do have a memory upgrade question, though.  The Dell website is no help for this, so maybe one of you knows the answer to this.  I have a Dell XPS 730, with 4 Dell-installed 1G memory boards of DDR3 RAM at 1333 mhz.  I would like to upgrade to 1600 mhz, and there is a Corsair 8mb kit of 4 2G boards of DDR3 RAM.  There is not enough on the Dell website to tell me whether the other specs in the memory would work, i.e.; voltage, timings, etc.  Where can I go to get the whole story?
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Jeremy Payne

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Policies on 32-64bit software conversion?
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2010, 04:50:50 PM »

Quote from: walter.sk
Where can I go to get the whole story?
http://www.crucial.com/systemscanner/
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mmurph

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« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2010, 05:06:53 PM »

Quote from: PeterAit
FWIW, Win 7 includes system backup (disk clone) software, at least Win 7 Home Premium does, so there's no need for a 3rd party program to do this.

I use the Win 7 backup tools on multiple machines, both Home Premium & Professional.

I also use a 6TB NAS with it's own backup software. I would stll recomend the Acronis disk cloning solution. Much cleaner, faster, and more reliable In case of cetain failures - mostly the OS and ap drives.  Also free if any of the drives involved are WD or Seagate.


Edit: I guess I should clarify. I was not able to create a **bootable** clone disk, with Win 7 and Photoshop being recognized as licensed, and ready to go. I got Win 7 encoded image files, but not executable.  I don't remember all of the details, maybe 6 montsh ago - eSata, USB, network drive, etc. I just bailed and used my good old Acronis. So maybe I screwed up. YMMV.    


From Microsoft:

If you can't access Control Panel, you can restore your computer using a Windows installation disc or a system repair disc (if you have one).

1.Insert the installation disc or system repair disc.....


6.On the System Recovery Options menu, click System Image Recovery, and then follow the instructions.



Then you have to install the image to your existing drive:

Warning
When you restore your computer from a system image, it's a complete restoration. You can't choose individual items to restore, and all of your programs, system settings, and files are replaced with those on the system image.




My approach is: keep that "crashed" drive intact, as-is, to recover any data or whatever you want to try to get back.  Plug in a **new**, cloned,  system drive, boot the computer, start working now in Lightroom or PS to get a job finished ASAP, or just to start recovery off the old drive.

You can always try to install a newer image over the clone, if you have one.......

Michael
« Last Edit: February 11, 2010, 07:02:19 PM by mmurph »
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mmurph

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« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2010, 11:16:04 AM »

OK, OK - I suppose you could make the image with Win 7, then do the restore to another drive right away. Test to be sure both drives boot and show as "authentic" under MS policies. Try PS too, I haven't had a liscence problem on my Acronis clones - they just run as-is.

Guess I didn't go far enough - as if any of you really care!    

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Farmer

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« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2010, 04:19:22 PM »

Quote from: mmurph
OK, OK - I suppose you could make the image with Win 7, then do the restore to another drive right away. Test to be sure both drives boot and show as "authentic" under MS policies. Try PS too, I haven't had a liscence problem on my Acronis clones - they just run as-is.

Guess I didn't go far enough - as if any of you really care!

The VHD created by the Win 7 back up is very cool - you can actually boot to it, which is a nice way of having a "second" copy of your OS if you like to play around with things or do testing and the like, as well as having a useful backup.
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Phil Brown

walter.sk

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« Reply #17 on: February 13, 2010, 10:22:04 AM »

Quote from: Jeremy Payne
http://www.crucial.com/systemscanner/
Thanks, Jeremy
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walter.sk

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« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2010, 10:28:36 AM »

Well, after checking various memory vendors and tools, what I came up with was 4 2GB modules of 1333MHz DDR3 from Kingston, with XPS730 in their part number, guaranteed to work on my machine with WIN 7 64-bit.  I ordered them from my often used source, Provantage, for a really low price on the memory.

I am now completing the process of assembling my original distribution discs, latest drivers, serial numbers, etc.  I will buy a faster system drive and clone my current system drive to it.  Then I'll switch drives and use the cloned drive to install WIN7 on, and start installing my programs.

I really want to thank the posters here for all the input.
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mmurph

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« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2010, 11:03:23 AM »

Just to clarify quickly: You need to do a **clean install** on a new (or reused) drive to go from XP to Win 7. Because of the "large jump" you can't just "upgrade" the existing install.

That is probably best anyway from a performance standpoint. I don't want to derail your thread more, I'll leave it at that for  right now (on my phone too.)  

Sounds like you are mostly on track though.

Thanks Phil!

Cheers,
Michael
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