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Author Topic: Singh-Ray ND filters  (Read 14214 times)

desertmike

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Singh-Ray ND filters
« on: February 07, 2010, 02:04:41 am »

Hi, does anybody have any experience with either Singh-Ray's Vari-ND or Vari-ND Duo filters on a Canon 24-105mm or 16-35mm?

I'm thinking of getting such a filter but not sure which to get. I'm also wondering if these filters are usable on these lenses at their shortest focal lengths  - too much vignetting maybe?

Any insights or advice much appreciated.
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Woodcorner

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« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2010, 02:05:27 pm »

The Vari-ND duo filter displays vignetting with the 24-70 f2.8 L lens on a full frame body at 24mm. Cropped sensor might work better with in the 16 to 24 mm range, I suspect. At 28mm and above, everything is fine.

Cheers,
Andrew
« Last Edit: February 07, 2010, 02:11:54 pm by Woodcorner »
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Panopeeper

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« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2010, 02:31:21 pm »

You can go cheaper than with Singh-Ray: with two polarizer filters. The lower one (i.e. the one on the lens) must be circular, threaded on the front as well; the upper one must be linear. Their relative position determines the degree of filtering, from about 2 EV to infinity.

They should be relatively large to avoid vignetting; but then you can use them on several lenses.
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Gabor

francois

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« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2010, 02:35:01 pm »

FWIW, Singh-Ray offers a thin mount version of the Vari-ND (77mm). I don't know if it's enough to clear a 24mm on a FF camera. For the new EF 16-35 f/2.8 II  lens (82mm) , there's no thin mount version.
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Francois

jasonrandolph

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« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2010, 10:46:49 am »

With the Vari-N-Duo, you will get some unpleanant effects (like uneven lighting) at wider angles.  It goes away around 24mm from my experience.  Sing-Ray says that you should lower the ND setting if this happens.  As for vignetting, yes, you will get some at the wide end of your zoom, but this is true of any filter that's not oversized for the lens you are using.  

Despite these two shortfalls, I love it.  Being in Hawaii, there is sometimes a little too much sun.  However, I shot an image last weekend under a bright sunny sky, and I pulled off a 10-second exposure at ISO 200 with my Vari-N-Duo.  It's a great creative tool.

Luis Argerich

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« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2010, 11:45:38 am »

Why Iso200 in a 10 second exposure? Shooting film?
Maybe there is a good technical reason and I can learn something!

Quote from: jasonrandolph
With the Vari-N-Duo, you will get some unpleanant effects (like uneven lighting) at wider angles.  It goes away around 24mm from my experience.  Sing-Ray says that you should lower the ND setting if this happens.  As for vignetting, yes, you will get some at the wide end of your zoom, but this is true of any filter that's not oversized for the lens you are using.  

Despite these two shortfalls, I love it.  Being in Hawaii, there is sometimes a little too much sun.  However, I shot an image last weekend under a bright sunny sky, and I pulled off a 10-second exposure at ISO 200 with my Vari-N-Duo.  It's a great creative tool.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2010, 11:46:20 am by Luis Argerich »
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Paul Sumi

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« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2010, 01:03:51 pm »

Quote from: Luis Argerich
Why Iso200 in a 10 second exposure? Shooting film?
Maybe there is a good technical reason and I can learn something!

I don't know if this is the reason in this particular case but, if memory serves, some earlier DSLRs have a base ISO of 200.

Paul
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jasonrandolph

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« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2010, 04:38:27 pm »

That's right.  Base ISO of my Nikon D300 is 200.  I wanted a ten-second exposure because it was a seascape, and I wanted to "flatten out" the water.

Scott O.

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« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2010, 02:28:39 pm »

Quote from: Luis Argerich
Why Iso200 in a 10 second exposure? Shooting film?
Maybe there is a good technical reason and I can learn something!

For me, in a single word...water!  When shooting in sunlight a ND filter is the only way to slow down your shutter enough to get that smooth, dreamy water effect.  I almost always use it when shooting waterfalls or rapids, and look forward to trying it at the ocean.  To partially answer the original poster, I sold my Vari ND and bought the Vari ND Duo.  But I don't use it below 24mm on a full frame Nikon.  It is a thick filter.  If I were to do it again I might consider buying a larger size and using a step-down (or step-up, I can't keep the terms straight!) ring.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2010, 02:31:21 pm by soberle »
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dstefan

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« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2010, 10:19:25 pm »

Quote from: Panopeeper
You can go cheaper than with Singh-Ray: with two polarizer filters. The lower one (i.e. the one on the lens) must be circular, threaded on the front as well; the upper one must be linear. Their relative position determines the degree of filtering, from about 2 EV to infinity.

They should be relatively large to avoid vignetting; but then you can use them on several lenses.
Why does the top one have to be linear?  What happens if it's circular?  I ask as I have an old circular 77mm polarizer and a newer one.  Never did bother to understand what the difference was except that circular didn't affect AF systems.
Thanks for enlightenment.
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Scott O.

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« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2010, 11:51:10 am »

Why not call Singh-Ray directly?  Bob Singh will probably answer the phone and answer your questions himself.  He has been very helpful to me...

Panopeeper

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« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2010, 03:17:14 pm »

Quote from: dstefan
Why does the top one have to be linear?  What happens if it's circular?  I ask as I have an old circular 77mm polarizer and a newer one.  Never did bother to understand what the difference was except that circular didn't affect AF systems.
The "circular" filter blocks some of the rays and then stirs up the leftover; the result is like "unfiltered" but less. The "normal" filter filters some of the rays and lets the others pass; thus a "normal" filter following a "circular" filter can thin the output of the first filter. If the top filter is a linear one, then a following circular filter can be adjusted to its output. The result may be zero (total filtering) to 100% of what passed the first filter.
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Gabor

Panopeeper

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« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2010, 03:24:57 pm »

Quote from: dstefan
Why does the top one have to be linear?  What happens if it's circular?
If the top one is circular, then its output is "unorganised", a following polarizer filter's effect is much less predictable than if the first filter removes rays with certain characteristics. For example two "linear" filters over each other can filter from almost nothing to everything, depending on the relative position of the two filters (and, of course, depending on their absolute position as well, but that's natural).
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EricV

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« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2010, 04:21:37 pm »

Quote from: dstefan
Why does the top one have to be linear?  What happens if it's circular?
You need two linear polarizers next to each other (rotated 90 degrees relative to each other) in order to get large extinction.  The circular polarizer is actually a stack with a linear polarizer on top and another optical element below.  Lets call that stack (linear + rotator).  If you stack a linear polarizer on top of this, you get (linear + linear+ rotator), which works, letting you tune the extinction by rotating either filter.  If you stack the circular polarizer on top, you get (linear + rotator + linear), and you will no longer get good extinction with any rotation of the filters (and your AF system will once again be affected).

« Last Edit: March 04, 2010, 04:25:39 pm by EricV »
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kuau

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« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2010, 01:51:32 am »

I have the Vari ND Duo 77mm, the thin version and it works with my 24mm PC-E lens from nikon on my D3x,
now the only problem I am having is a red color shift when doing longer exposures on my d3x, I didn't have this problem on my D700.
I just sent my filter back to singh-ray. I hope they can fix this problem.
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MarkL

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« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2010, 08:15:57 am »

I'm looking at buying one of these but the mad cost, $52 shipping to the UK plus import duty is making me look at alternatives. I probably only need 3 and 4 stop since I'll be using this to allow me to shoot with less dof with flash, at this price I could buy 2 b+w filters for all the filter sizes of my lenses!

In my travels around the net I found a similar thing from these guys: http://www.faderfilters.com/fadernd.html for much less
« Last Edit: March 19, 2010, 11:02:05 am by MarkL »
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desertmike

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Singh-Ray ND filters
« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2010, 06:47:38 am »

Well, I finally got the Vari-Duo ND. On the EF 24-105L on a full frame, I find vignetting doesn't stop until about 40mm, which is a bit disappointing. I'm enjoying experimenting with it though. Here's a recent one from Damascus:

[attachment=21669:mgreenphotos_033.jpg]

Something I don't understand though - with this lens I can use Live View and see the effect of increasing the filter strength. However, when I use the EF 70-300 DO lens, the Live View image doesn't change - it remains underexposed. Any idea why? Am I missing something?

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francois

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« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2010, 10:59:06 am »

Quote from: desertmike
Well, I finally got the Vari-Duo ND. On the EF 24-105L on a full frame, I find vignetting doesn't stop until about 40mm, which is a bit disappointing. I'm enjoying experimenting with it though. Here's a recent one from Damascus:

[attachment=21669:mgreenphotos_033.jpg]

Something I don't understand though - with this lens I can use Live View and see the effect of increasing the filter strength. However, when I use the EF 70-300 DO lens, the Live View image doesn't change - it remains underexposed. Any idea why? Am I missing something?
Mike, I can't help you with the issue of your 70-300 but I'd like to ask you if you got the thin or the standard version. The vignetting (< about 40mm) is not what I expected provided you got the thin filter.
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Francois

desertmike

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Singh-Ray ND filters
« Reply #18 on: April 25, 2010, 12:54:56 pm »

Francois - it's the thin ring mount, about 14mm according to their site. I've just had a look through my files and even at 40mm there's a tiny vignette - easily cropped or dealt with in software, but there nonetheless. I asked if they were planning an 82mm size but they said they weren't - too bad. Not sure where vignetting occurs on other lenses though.
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francois

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« Reply #19 on: April 25, 2010, 01:18:33 pm »

Quote from: desertmike
Francois - it's the thin ring mount, about 14mm according to their site. I've just had a look through my files and even at 40mm there's a tiny vignette - easily cropped or dealt with in software, but there nonetheless. I asked if they were planning an 82mm size but they said they weren't - too bad. Not sure where vignetting occurs on other lenses though.
Mike,
Thanks for the info. I guess that on my 24-70, vignetting would be identical. Too bad they don't offer a 82mm, I can't imagine using this filter and a step-down ring with a 16-35 II.
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Francois
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