To wide gamut or not to wide gamut ...

[Christoph C. Feldhaim]

I'm going to buy a hardware calibrated monitor within the next 3 months or so,
since my office monitor - though software calibrated and a nice one within its league -
is a pain in the butt for softproofing.

I don't print myself yet. All my positives are done by a pro grade lab (Jan Kopp in Hamburg),
most on Kodak Endura glossy paper. I want my new monitor to allow me to see all colors
(at least as much as possible) print media (not only the Kodak paper) can output.

I'm going to get an IPS panel.

So - my question is not about a specific brand, but about the wide gamut or not wide gamut question.

Suggestions ?


Thank you
~Chris

[madmanchan]

Not a direct answer to your question, but a recommendation: You generally will not be able to see all of the printable colors, regardless of your display. Hence I suggest you do not establish that as your primary goal. Getting a useful, consistent preview of what's printable, and using soft proofing (and occasionally gamut warnings) to help you prepare your image for print is -- I believe -- a more practical goal.

[Paul Sumi]

So - my question is not about a specific brand, but about the wide gamut or not wide gamut question.

I don't have any answers, but I have a couple of questions for you that may help others give you some insight.

1) How are you calibrating your current monitor?  Which calibration software and hardware puck?  You might not need to buy a new monitor if these can be improved.

2) Are you going to use the new monitor for other purposes than photo processing?  For example, web browsing, work-related apps like presentations, and generally using NON-color managed applications.

Paul

[Christoph C. Feldhaim]

1) How are you calibrating your current monitor?  Which calibration software and hardware puck?  You might not need to buy a new monitor if these can be improved.

I'm using an xrite DTP94B together with the Quato software.
http://www.quato.de/english/icdisplay3.php

2) Are you going to use the new monitor for other purposes than photo processing?  For example, web browsing, work-related apps like presentations, and generally using NON-color managed applications.

I'm using a Dual monitor system. The proof monitor is going to be used for photo softproofing / postprocessing exclusively.

[bjanes]

I'm going to buy a hardware calibrated monitor within the next 3 months or so,
since my office monitor - though software calibrated and a nice one within its league -
is a pain in the butt for softproofing.

I don't print myself yet. All my positives are done by a pro grade lab (Jan Kopp in Hamburg),
most on Kodak Endura glossy paper. I want my new monitor to allow me to see all colors
(at least as much as possible) print media (not only the Kodak paper) can output.

Chris,

Even though you are using a pro lab, they are using photographic paper, which does not have that wide of a gamut. I would suggest getting a profile of the intended output device and compare that gamut with those of sRGB, aRGB, and the image. Among printers, high end ink jet printers currently have the widest gamut, which can exceed that of aRGB. ColorThink is a standard gamut mapping application, but currently I would not recommend Colorthink 2.2, which does not support Windows 7 or 64 bit (they are still stuck with Win XP or Win 2000. I don't know about the Mac).

Gernot Hoffman (page 10 of the linked PDF) has a plot of real world surface colors that ideally should be reproduced. sRGB is quite deficient in green, and even AdobeRGB does not cover all the color in Gernot's plot or what a good inkjet can output. Currently, I am getting good results with my profiled narrow gamut LCD, but my next monitor will be a wide gamut device.

[Steven Draper]

If you view the web with Safari or Firefox on the same monitor then the wide gamut monitors will cause you some fun and games unless you are prepared to switch viewing mode when switching use.

Personally I have a good well calibrated monitor that is not wide gamut that yields few printing surprises and I have a good idea of visualizing the printed outcomes. My default working space is ProPhoto, converted at the raw stage although I do find different colour spaces appropriate for different images / paper combinations especially images with orange (aRGB) or yellow-greens. (ProPhoto) and skin tones sRGB.

But in the case of general lab prints the control may not be so tight and variations can occur for several reasons. A calibration image, lab profile and ensuring that no modifications to colour settings occur may well be of more importance here.

atb

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

Lab prints probably may have a smaller gamut than prints from mother ink jets. You can pre-visualize what colors can be seen in Photoshop CS using

 View->Proof Setup to set color space
View->Proof Colors
View->Gamut warning

The gamut warning would inform you about which colors fall outside a given color space.

I would recommend this one from LuLa: http://www.llvj.com/videos/camera-print.shtml

You may also check this page: http://www.nykopingsfotoklubb.se/fotowiki/...amp;context=180

http://www.nykopingsfotoklubb.se/fotowiki/...28EriksSidor%29

It's in Swedish but the images tell the story

BR
Erik

I'm going to buy a hardware calibrated monitor within the next 3 months or so,
since my office monitor - though software calibrated and a nice one within its league -
is a pain in the butt for softproofing.

I don't print myself yet. All my positives are done by a pro grade lab (Jan Kopp in Hamburg),
most on Kodak Endura glossy paper. I want my new monitor to allow me to see all colors
(at least as much as possible) print media (not only the Kodak paper) can output.

I'm going to get an IPS panel.

So - my question is not about a specific brand, but about the wide gamut or not wide gamut question.

Suggestions ?


Thank you
~Chris

[PeterAit]

The gamut warning would inform you about which colors fall outside a given color space.

The gamut warning in PhotoShop is notoriously inaccurate and therefore worthless. To see this for yourself, view a photo's color range along with a profile in a good color space program such as ColorThink Pro - you'll see a quantitative display of where the colors in the photo fall outside of the profile. Then use the same photo and profile in PS and view the gamut warning - you'll see precious little relationship.

Even if it were accurate, the gamut warning would still be essentially useless. A color that's just a tiny bit out of gamut shows up the same in the warning as one that's way out of gamut.

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

Lab prints probably may have a smaller gamut than prints from mother ink jets. You can pre-visualize what colors can be seen in Photoshop CS using

 View->Proof Setup to set color space
View->Proof Colors
View->Gamut warning

The gamut warning would inform you about which colors fall outside a given color space.

I would recommend this one from LuLa: http://www.llvj.com/videos/camera-print.shtml

You may also check this page:

http://www.nykopingsfotoklubb.se/fotowiki/...28EriksSidor%29

It's in Swedish but the images tell the story

BR
Erik

I'm going to buy a hardware calibrated monitor within the next 3 months or so,
since my office monitor - though software calibrated and a nice one within its league -
is a pain in the butt for softproofing.

I don't print myself yet. All my positives are done by a pro grade lab (Jan Kopp in Hamburg),
most on Kodak Endura glossy paper. I want my new monitor to allow me to see all colors
(at least as much as possible) print media (not only the Kodak paper) can output.

I'm going to get an IPS panel.

So - my question is not about a specific brand, but about the wide gamut or not wide gamut question.

Suggestions ?


Thank you
~Chris

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

I'd still suggest that it is worth trying. The test, which is very simple, should indicate if colors are falling outside the colour space. If this is not the case, there is simply no issue. If colours are falling outside the gamut we can discuss the advantages of different color spaces.

Karl Lang, who designed the Sony Artisan monitors seem to have some reservations about using an eight bit color space in connection with Adobe RGB. A way to see it may be that if we have colors inside the gamut of the sRGB using sRGB as a viewing space may be beneficial, because of better tonal separation.

http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....ost&p=54301

Best regards
Erik

The gamut warning in PhotoShop is notoriously inaccurate and therefore worthless. To see this for yourself, view a photo's color range along with a profile in a good color space program such as ColorThink Pro - you'll see a quantitative display of where the colors in the photo fall outside of the profile. Then use the same photo and profile in PS and view the gamut warning - you'll see precious little relationship.

Even if it were accurate, the gamut warning would still be essentially useless. A color that's just a tiny bit out of gamut shows up the same in the warning as one that's way out of gamut.