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Author Topic: Hasselblad H4D-40 to be launched on Feb 10th  (Read 54585 times)

Doug Peterson

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Hasselblad H4D-40 to be launched on Feb 10th
« Reply #220 on: February 10, 2010, 07:54:56 PM »

Quote from: pschefz
so the h4d60/p65+ is for people who need super resolution...to really get everything out of the sensor the gear has to be on tripod and the mirror lifted....so why the focus thingy? why not a larger sensor? i really don't want to hear about price....if pentax can sell their kodak based thing for 6500.....a rig 4, 5 or 6x the price should be able to have a sensor that is larger? why not put 2 in one body/back? who cares how big the back is, who cares if i have to run it through some software to open it up?

red promised some crazy sensor (they are making a lot of promises but this one is really out there).....6x17?!

Pentax and Red do not have shipping (let alone real-world-proven) MFD still systems. Until they do any comparisons are pure speculation.

[retracted to avoid taking the conversation to far off topic]

Doug Peterson
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pschefz

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Hasselblad H4D-40 to be launched on Feb 10th
« Reply #221 on: February 10, 2010, 08:12:54 PM »

Quote from: dougpetersonci
Pentax and Red do not have shipping (let alone real-world-proven) MFD still systems. Until they do any comparisons are pure speculation.

And the idea that you MUST have any digital back on a tripod with the mirror lifted to get amazing image quality is not my experience. Granted I work for a company that sells DBs (as well as Canon) so my opinion will always be suspect - maybe others could jump in to give their conclusions or we could start a new thread as that's not really directly relevant to the H4D-40.

A shutter speed of 1/focal-length results (and good hold-technique) is fine for dSLRs - for digital backs you only need another stop or so (this is ignoring Image Stabalization since my personal use of the 5DII is limited almost exclusively to the 50mm/1.2 and 85mm/1.2 which do not have IS).  

ISO response on a 5D Mark II is great, but I still wouldn't use it above ISO800 (maybe 1600) unless I was looking for that noisier/grungier image. A P65+ can shoot a very clean ISO1600 in Sensor Plus mode that will match or exceed that 5DII ISO1600 file.

By NO means could that 65+ go to ISO6400 and still produce a meaningful file, and you can't buy a f/1.2 lens for a 65+  so if you're trying to shoot reportage at night, or want to experiment with minimally lit evening/night fashion then obviously the 5DII will be a better tool.

However, any implication that modern digital backs like the 65+ must be locked to a tripod with mirror-up to produce stellar image quality does not jibe with my hands on experience.

Doug Peterson
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i actually got to compare some raw files from the P65+ in the binning mode (is that what you are talking about?) and they can't compare to files from the 5DII...not even close....not in noise levels and not in DR...and they are smaller files?

either way...i just saw a shot of mine published in a very nicely printed fashion mag...double page spread....the shot was cropped(!)...shot at 1200...with a 1.4 lens.....i actually added grain after post production (i always do and this had to match shots ranging from 100...to 1200)....

it really does not matter...i don't think MF has to compete on that level...i never did or tried to...that is the point....give me a camera/back that gives me a MF feel/look and lets me shoot with a MF feel (and weight and handling)....

i never touched SLR as long as i shot film....never had a problem....i WANT to shoot MF...not "slightly larger then SLR without any of the advantages of SLR but ridiculous high resolution i don't really need"....i never would have tought to pick up a 645 camera in my film days either...

i understand that until the pentax is released we don't need to talk about it...and actually i am not interested in it at 6500$ either....

the only thing that is remotely MF is the rollei 6008 with a P65+...this is a total custom solution with a dead camera system....and still 645....and about 60000$ for a smallish system....

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Brady

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Hasselblad H4D-40 to be launched on Feb 10th
« Reply #222 on: February 10, 2010, 08:43:44 PM »

I don't think soth shooting digital is so much a commercial thing as it is him trying new things. Maybe it's contributed a little bit but I would bet it's not the primary reason.  Not that I know the inside scoop but having seen him lecture twice in the past few months it seems to just be the next step for him....he's been working with video a lot more lately so I would keep an eye for something from him soon in that medium.  Also he showed a project he was doing on digital and it holds up I must say.  

Have to agree about that blue house though.
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bigalbest

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Hasselblad H4D-40 to be launched on Feb 10th
« Reply #223 on: February 10, 2010, 09:46:45 PM »

Seriously pschefs, do you know what the title of this topic is? If you are so in love with your 5DII then good for you, maybe you should try harder to convince yourself because I could care less. Personally I have three systems (35mm digital, MF digital and MF film), and I think each has its place and time. The reason I'm reading in this particular thread is to get some up to date information on Hasselblads new camera. If you don't like it or are unimpressed I'm sure one post will about cover it. Otherwise try to stick to the topic or better yet go start your own thread (preferably somewhere else), about how above all this you are.
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pschefz

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Hasselblad H4D-40 to be launched on Feb 10th
« Reply #224 on: February 11, 2010, 01:30:14 AM »

Quote from: bigalbest
Seriously pschefs, do you know what the title of this topic is? If you are so in love with your 5DII then good for you, maybe you should try harder to convince yourself because I could care less. Personally I have three systems (35mm digital, MF digital and MF film), and I think each has its place and time. The reason I'm reading in this particular thread is to get some up to date information on Hasselblads new camera. If you don't like it or are unimpressed I'm sure one post will about cover it. Otherwise try to stick to the topic or better yet go start your own thread (preferably somewhere else), about how above all this you are.


wow...i have been here for years...and i had no clue you were moderating this forum....news to me...but i will let you get back to work now and please make sure you tell people what they should write about...and where....

just out of curiosity: what do you expect to find out about the hd4 40 here? there are demos all over the place and you will be much better off checking it out in person....i will try and do the same tomorrow.....
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archivue

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Hasselblad H4D-40 to be launched on Feb 10th
« Reply #225 on: February 11, 2010, 03:54:48 AM »

Quote from: pschefz
either way....for whatever reason the MF world decided that the only way they could compete with DSLR is with 645...and no other option...
i guess i am so desperate for a "real mf" feel that i shoot manual lenses and an angle finder on my 5DII....


then you should go with an MF back, and Alpa, Arca, Cambo... platform !
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bigalbest

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Hasselblad H4D-40 to be launched on Feb 10th
« Reply #226 on: February 11, 2010, 09:12:20 AM »

Quote from: pschefz
wow...i have been here for years...and i had no clue you were moderating this forum....news to me...but i will let you get back to work now and please make sure you tell people what they should write about...and where....

just out of curiosity: what do you expect to find out about the hd4 40 here? there are demos all over the place and you will be much better off checking it out in person....i will try and do the same tomorrow.....

You have failed utterly to make a point. I'm sure that happens a lot.

Now back to H4D40 discussion.  
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BJL

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Hasselblad H4D-40 to be launched on Feb 10th
« Reply #227 on: February 11, 2010, 09:59:11 AM »

Quote from: pschefz
... for whatever reason the MF world decided that the only way they could compete with DSLR is with 645
It has little or nothing to do with digital: the MF world was moving away from square formats to oblong(*) formats like 645 and 6x7 well before the digital transition: Rollei and Hasselblad were losing market share to Japanese upstarts like Mamiya, Pentax and Bronica, all of which offered mostly or exclusively non-square formats. (The one exception: Bronica SQ, but the 645 format ETR series was Bronica's best seller.) And Hasselblad started its transition to 645 and AF back in the film era.

Digital merely adds a nail to the coffin, since sensors have to be made in a particular shape, whereas the same roll film can be used in a variety of format shapes. So it just becomes more manifest how few images taken on 120 film were being composed for or printed in square format.

Digital has been responsible for leaving behind 6x7 (and 6x8, 6x9, 6x17 ...), due to the vastly greater cost of such large sensors in exchange for IQ improvements that would only be noticeable in too small a portion of photography to make it economically viable. (RED claims otherwise, but let us see what RED actually achieves in any format larger than its current 30x15mm maximum.)


* Nitpick: a square is a kind of rectangle: if you mean "a rectangle other than a square", the best word is "oblong".
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TechTalk

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Hasselblad H4D-40 to be launched on Feb 10th
« Reply #228 on: February 11, 2010, 03:33:51 PM »

Quote from: bigalbest
Personally I have three systems (35mm digital, MF digital and MF film), and I think each has its place and time.

I agree.

A cruise ship isn’t what you want to go fishing in a creek and a rowboat isn’t a very good way to cross the ocean. Still, some think that all boats should sail in their direction and believe the ones that don’t must have blind captains and fools for passengers.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2010, 04:25:32 PM by TechTalk »
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Dick Roadnight

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Hasselblad H4D-40 to be launched on Feb 10th
« Reply #229 on: February 11, 2010, 05:17:40 PM »

Personally I have three systems (35mm digital, MF digital and MF film), and I think each has its place and time.

Quote from: TechTalk
I agree.

A cruise ship isnít what you want to go fishing in a creek and a rowboat isnít a very good way to cross the ocean. Still, some think that all boats should sail in their direction and believe the ones that donít must have blind captains and fools for passengers.
...Yes but the H4D is more versatile than any one boat, as you can use it as a point-and-shoot or, with a view camera, as a full-blown professional camera doing what you would have needed a 5*4 or 10*8 for.
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BJL

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Hasselblad H4D-40 to be launched on Feb 10th
« Reply #230 on: February 11, 2010, 05:32:16 PM »

Quote from: Dick Roadnight
...Yes but the H4D is more versatile than any one boat, as you can use it as a point-and-shoot ...
But it has been declared many times by forum gurus that a point-and-shoot must fit in your pants pocket! On that test, the H4D runs aground.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2010, 05:33:21 PM by BJL »
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David Grover / Phase One

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Hasselblad H4D-40 to be launched on Feb 10th
« Reply #231 on: February 11, 2010, 06:05:02 PM »

Quote from: BJL
But it has been declared many times by forum gurus that a point-and-shoot must fit in your pants pocket! On that test, the H4D runs aground.

Depends how big your pants are.
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David Grover
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TechTalk

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Hasselblad H4D-40 to be launched on Feb 10th
« Reply #232 on: February 11, 2010, 06:34:10 PM »

Quote from: Dick Roadnight
...Yes but the H4D is more versatile than any one boat, as you can use it as a point-and-shoot or, with a view camera, as a full-blown professional camera doing what you would have needed a 5*4 or 10*8 for.

You're correct.

The few (holding the confident view that if it isn't right for their use because it's the wrong color or shape or format or resolution or lacking some sort of absolutely vital feature or function which they require, etc.--then it must be overblown marketing hype) have already come aboard to imply that it is only good as a boat anchor for wealthy amateurs and done so with the mockery and disdain such abhorrent acts of technological heresy deserve. The heresy may be an affront to tradition or the new revolution depending on the current outrage being expressed.

Just thought I would beat them to the boat anchor punch line. Of course, not to worry, every real professional they know already unanimously agrees with their keen and witty insight because their needs are all the same. So they will find another acerbic line of assault to illuminate those misled rich consumers and beginning pros that haven't yet acquired their war weary and battle scarred wisdom.
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mtomalty

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Hasselblad H4D-40 to be launched on Feb 10th
« Reply #233 on: February 11, 2010, 06:46:15 PM »

Quote
Depends how big your pants are.


....or how deep your pockets  :>))


Mark
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TechTalk

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Hasselblad H4D-40 to be launched on Feb 10th
« Reply #234 on: February 11, 2010, 06:50:25 PM »

Quote from: David Grover / Hasselblad
Depends how big your pants are.

That's why I'm wearing my MC Hammer pants again!

Hammer Pants Invasion Link!
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bigalbest

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Hasselblad H4D-40 to be launched on Feb 10th
« Reply #235 on: February 11, 2010, 10:01:53 PM »

Quote from: TechTalk
You're correct.

The few (holding the confident view that if it isn't right for their use because it's the wrong color or shape or format or resolution or lacking some sort of absolutely vital feature or function which they require, etc.--then it must be overblown marketing hype) have already come aboard to imply that it is only good as a boat anchor for wealthy amateurs and done so with the mockery and disdain such abhorrent acts of technological heresy deserve. The heresy may be an affront to tradition or the new revolution depending on the current outrage being expressed.

Just thought I would beat them to the boat anchor punch line. Of course, not to worry, every real professional they know already unanimously agrees with their keen and witty insight because their needs are all the same. So they will find another acerbic line of assault to illuminate those misled rich consumers and beginning pros that haven't yet acquired their war weary and battle scarred wisdom.


     
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Dick Roadnight

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Hasselblad H4D-40 to be launched on Feb 10th
« Reply #236 on: February 12, 2010, 06:28:46 AM »

...Yes but the H4D is more versatile than any one boat, as you can use it as a point-and-shoot ...

Quote from: BJL
But it has been declared many times by forum gurus that a point-and-shoot must fit in your pants pocket! On that test, the H4D runs aground.

I consider that anything with a full auto option (with which you can point and shoot) can be considered a point-and-shoot... but I could sew my think-tank holster on to my trouser thigh...

You can also use H3/4s as dumbbells, preferably as a pair with a 300 and 50 -110 lenses!
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Hasselblad H4D-40 to be launched on Feb 10th
« Reply #237 on: February 12, 2010, 02:16:14 PM »

Quote from: TechTalk
Of course, not to worry, every real professional they know already unanimously agrees with their keen and witty insight because their needs are all the same.

Now we have "real" professional with Canikon, and the others lol

Quote
So they will find another acerbic line of assault to illuminate those misled rich consumers and beginning pros that haven't yet acquired their war weary and battle scarred wisdom.

I suppose that on a typical car forum, we can read such stupid rant like that :

"I'm a taxi driver, and the new Mercedes Benz is overpriced to me (I can't afford it), and now, just those fucking wealthy dentists can buy this new model (it's well know car makers as camera makers have only "real" professionals as customers lol) !

What the hell ! This company is doing cars for riches and not for real professionals like us ! Everybody knows the needs of "real professionals" like us : 10 seats, not so powerful engine (we just drive in the city !) etc"

lol

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TMARK

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Hasselblad H4D-40 to be launched on Feb 10th
« Reply #238 on: February 12, 2010, 04:59:56 PM »

Hey Hasselblad sales people:  your snide tone is alienating people.  I hope that's not part of your marketing strategy.  I'm starting to associate the brand with a decidely negative emotional response.  I've worked in advertising log enough to know that is not a good thing.  In fact, this is the opposite to what you want to create.  This from someone who thinks the new True Focus is a good idea, and sees a real benefit in the H as a camera integrated with a back.  

I'm not being snide or critical, I'm just letting you know how things look from where I sit.
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Doug Peterson

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Hasselblad H4D-40 to be launched on Feb 10th
« Reply #239 on: February 12, 2010, 05:49:39 PM »

Quote from: TMARK
Hey Hasselblad sales people:  your snide tone is alienating people.

David Grover is the only employee of Hasselblad here AFAIK and I can't see any comment he made which is snide. I've always found him to be strait forward, thick skinned, and have a good sense of humor.

Doug Peterson
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