Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Down

Author Topic: MF Digital Back Reliability  (Read 11188 times)

DanielStone

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 664
MF Digital Back Reliability
« Reply #20 on: January 30, 2010, 04:37:14 am »

here you go.

video from Leaf

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDNsFegKeWw

-Dan
Logged

Hywel

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 294
    • http://www.restrainedelegance.com
MF Digital Back Reliability
« Reply #21 on: January 30, 2010, 04:56:03 am »

I've been using my Hasselblad in studio and relatively benign location shooting conditions for a year, with no hint of any problem. I don't shoot tethered. I've never had any hint of hissy fits from the camera or back.

If you go for an H3, why not pick up a second hand H1 or H2F plus film back(s) at the same time? Procentre in London have usually have these in their second hand section and the cost is comparable with the cost of an MF lens. That way you do have the film backup option right to hand.

Or, if the shoots where you critically need backup come in reasonably tight batches, hire a second H plus back for the duration.  

Or, take a 5D Mk2 as backup. Sure, it isn't up the quality of the H3's, but 21 megapixels with good Canon L series glass on the front (especially primes) is far better than no shots at all from an expensive shoot day. That's what we do for our location shoots, mainly because we already had the Canons lying around from before we acquired the Hasselblad. The only times we've used the backup cameras are where we have split into two shooting units on location to make the best of the place and the models' time.

I don't know what the conditions are like in your shoots, but I'd probably want a backup I could just pick up and use immediately in case of any technical hitch, not something I'd want to change lenses on or backs on in mid-flight. So if it were me I'd go for a complete ready-to-roll backup with lens on the front, even if the lens/camera choice is a little less than ideal (say a H2F with standard 80 mm on the front...) as that minimizes wasted time fiddling around in case something were to go wrong with the primary system.


Cheers, Hywel Phillips
« Last Edit: January 30, 2010, 04:59:32 am by Hywel »
Logged

rolleiflexpages

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 180
    • http://www.rolleiflexpages.com
MF Digital Back Reliability
« Reply #22 on: January 30, 2010, 05:47:39 am »

John,

you may also have an interest in this:
http://www.rollei-metric.com/index.php?id=...ome&lang=en
Logged
Pascal Heyman - www.rolleiflexpages.com

rolleiflexpages

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 180
    • http://www.rolleiflexpages.com
MF Digital Back Reliability
« Reply #23 on: January 30, 2010, 05:54:26 am »

Quote from: BobDavid
The H2F takes CF backs and film magazines without having to change the viewfinder.

True but I was referring to the latest H3D-II series offerings, which do not allow use of film backs. Moreover, if you were to use the standard digital viewfinder on the older H3D, which does give film back compatibility, the viewfinder image would not cover the entire area for film. Hence the normal viewfinder would be needed in addition. Anyway, the point with Hasselblad is that you either go for the H2F (with both film and only Hasselblad CF digibacks, but not the highest digital IQ and no choice of 3rd party digital back) or the latest H3D-II series (or even H4D) (with digital back only, with very high IQ but also no 3rd party digital back). If you want the latest and most integrated digital solutions (H3D-II and up), you forgo film back compatibility, which is only restored by adding a second body (H2F, H2, H1) for film.
Logged
Pascal Heyman - www.rolleiflexpages.com

lowep

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 568
    • http://sites.google.com/site/peterlowefoto/
MF Digital Back Reliability
« Reply #24 on: January 30, 2010, 05:59:02 am »

How about the ability of MFDBs to withstand heat, dust and vibration?

Would it be gearcide to take a MFDB on an overland trip by local bus and by foot in a very hot & dusty tropical environment?

I have seen Phase One's macho MFDB ads on youtube but of course even these ads are shot in a studio, which is where most MFDBs are mostly designed to be used.

Of course any sensible photographer would opt for a weather sealed DSLR. But if just being sensible was the only option many of us would be reading some other forum
« Last Edit: January 30, 2010, 06:01:05 am by lowep »
Logged

lowep

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 568
    • http://sites.google.com/site/peterlowefoto/
MF Digital Back Reliability
« Reply #25 on: January 30, 2010, 04:59:53 pm »

Quote from: Yelhsa
The back is like a solid sealed brick which you put on the back of your camera.
So it's not a camera system like a DSLR.

Been around the world with mine and like I said before, no problems to report after 139968 Captures.

The camera body and lenses are a different story - that's the week link these days - not the back.

Happy to hear this - as I have a lot more $$ invested in my precious eMotion MFDB than in my secondhand Contax 645 body. Would you go so far as to say vibrations from a moving vehicle on a rough road, dust and tropical heat are unlikely to do any damage to a MFDB (yes, I know "what did I say - read my lips" but, well, errr Wow!

Maybe it is time to stop nursing my MFDB as if it were a fragile computer?

Have you ever tried dropping it from a plane?

BTW if it were possible to produce photos like the ones on your website just by buying a MFDB the risk would be worthwhile  






 
Logged

Guy Mancuso

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1133
    • http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/index.php
MF Digital Back Reliability
« Reply #26 on: January 31, 2010, 12:07:41 am »

I have had 3 Phase backs P25+, P30+ and now the P40+ backs and knock on wood never had any performance issues or mechanical failures on any of the backs. I push them pretty hard too. Frankly the back is the least of my worries in the total system . The bodies are more my concern. I did have a failure in a Mamiya AFDIII body but a backup body is relatively cheap like a AFD or AFD II you can find a used one for 1k or less. Again though any electronic body can go down.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2010, 12:08:36 am by Guy Mancuso »
Logged
[url=http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showt

lowep

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 568
    • http://sites.google.com/site/peterlowefoto/
MF Digital Back Reliability
« Reply #27 on: January 31, 2010, 04:55:49 am »

Quote from: Guy Mancuso
I have had 3 Phase backs P25+, P30+ and now the P40+ backs and knock on wood never had any performance issues or mechanical failures on any of the backs. I push them pretty hard too. Frankly the back is the least of my worries in the total system . The bodies are more my concern. I did have a failure in a Mamiya AFDIII body but a backup body is relatively cheap like a AFD or AFD II you can find a used one for 1k or less. Again though any electronic body can go down.

Guy,

You travel all over too. Maybe you could volunteer to drop your P40+ from a plane and report back to us on the impact?

I have in mind the famous story about the war photographer who dropped his Leica from a war plane somewhere and continued to use it after it was found in a ploughed field and returned to him.  If I remember right it was a Leica. But I guess there are not so many soft ploughed fields left any more and a motorway would make for a rougher landing.

Just dropping a MFDB on a hard floor sounds more than sickening enough    
Logged

Henry Goh

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 574
MF Digital Back Reliability
« Reply #28 on: January 31, 2010, 06:23:22 am »

Quote from: lowep
Guy,

You travel all over too. Maybe you could volunteer to drop your P40+ from a plane and report back to us on the impact?

I have in mind the famous story about the war photographer who dropped his Leica from a war plane somewhere and continued to use it after it was found in a ploughed field and returned to him.  If I remember right it was a Leica. But I guess there are not so many soft ploughed fields left any more and a motorway would make for a rougher landing.

Just dropping a MFDB on a hard floor sounds more than sickening enough  
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFnQVnMY3Co
Logged

Guy Mancuso

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1133
    • http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/index.php
MF Digital Back Reliability
« Reply #29 on: January 31, 2010, 10:05:13 am »

Quote from: lowep
Guy,

You travel all over too. Maybe you could volunteer to drop your P40+ from a plane and report back to us on the impact?

I have in mind the famous story about the war photographer who dropped his Leica from a war plane somewhere and continued to use it after it was found in a ploughed field and returned to him.  If I remember right it was a Leica. But I guess there are not so many soft ploughed fields left any more and a motorway would make for a rougher landing.

Just dropping a MFDB on a hard floor sounds more than sickening enough  


LOL Well I did lose a Hassy V out of a helicopter with film back up in Calgary over Lake Louise . Never did get that one back.

Seriously though I just shot three days in the rain here in Phoenix shooting this huge storm that came in with a 2 gallon ziplock bag and without on occasion and no issues. 25 cents to waterproof your camera who needs to spend more than that. Worked great actually. I actually think they way the designed the Phase backs that they have some very nice structural integrity and maybe reason why the elephant did not crush it . Obviously if it was turned a another way maybe a different ending.
Logged
[url=http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showt

lowep

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 568
    • http://sites.google.com/site/peterlowefoto/
MF Digital Back Reliability
« Reply #30 on: January 31, 2010, 10:11:24 am »

alternatively: here though admittedly this is a vintage model MFDB that was perhaps mishandled and otherwise may be still running today regardless of stampeding elephants, washing machines and ice machines not to forget helicopters.

Quite positive that it is hard to find any post about unreliability or failure of any MFDB anywhere...
« Last Edit: January 31, 2010, 10:12:49 am by lowep »
Logged

Guy Mancuso

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1133
    • http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/index.php
MF Digital Back Reliability
« Reply #31 on: January 31, 2010, 10:26:28 am »

Quote from: lowep
alternatively: here though admittedly this is a vintage model MFDB that was perhaps mishandled and otherwise may be still running today regardless of stampeding elephants, washing machines and ice machines not to forget helicopters.

Quite positive that it is hard to find any post about unreliability or failure of any MFDB anywhere...




Have to agree with any of the backs from all the OEM's it is pretty rare to hear of any of them going down. I'm sure it happens but you would think we would hear about it more and we don't . Which tells me they all do a good job of staying alive. Seriously for the money we spend that can't be beat for sure. The other nice thing is the actuations which really seem to have no effect on life with them. My last back had 18k on it and still going strong.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2010, 10:27:22 am by Guy Mancuso »
Logged
[url=http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showt

Lawrie_Hope

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 45
    • Peartreephoto
MF Digital Back Reliability
« Reply #32 on: February 01, 2010, 05:33:27 am »

Quote from: Kumar
ced, perhaps you'd care to amplify? Or maybe some of the dealers/reps here? I specifically want to know about the Leaf module that ced speaks of.

Kumar

Hi Kumar,

The Leaf Aptus and subsequent models after, have been designed in a modular manner that allows the electronics, ie everything except the mount plate, IR filter and sensor to be changed as one unit, known as the 'E' box. This can be done by a dealer, who has completed the extensive Leaf training course. The dealer then holds stock of these replacement E boxes. This means that on the odd occasion that the back fails a dealer can, after performing various diagnostic procedures, turn  a back around in a matter of hours, instead of shipping back to Denmark or Sweden and the subsequent delays this would incur.
Logged
Lawrie Hope
London, UK
Peartree

http://www.peartreephotoshop.co.uk

rolleiflexpages

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 180
    • http://www.rolleiflexpages.com
MF Digital Back Reliability
« Reply #33 on: February 01, 2010, 06:14:41 am »

Quote from: Darius_Gelich
Hi Kumar,

The Leaf Aptus and subsequent models after, have been designed in a modular manner that allows the electronics, ie everything except the mount plate, IR filter and sensor to be changed as one unit, known as the 'E' box. This can be done by a dealer, who has completed the extensive Leaf training course. The dealer then holds stock of these replacement E boxes. This means that on the odd occasion that the back fails a dealer can, after performing various diagnostic procedures, turn  a back around in a matter of hours, instead of shipping back to Denmark or Sweden and the subsequent delays this would incur.

Hi Darius,

this is interesting information.

Another question: aren't Leaf backs manufactured by Leaf in Israel ? Why would they have to be sent to Denmark or Sweden ?
Just curious...

Pascal
Logged
Pascal Heyman - www.rolleiflexpages.com

Lawrie_Hope

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 45
    • Peartreephoto
MF Digital Back Reliability
« Reply #34 on: February 01, 2010, 10:37:29 am »

Quote from: rolleiflexpages
Hi Darius,

this is interesting information.

Another question: aren't Leaf backs manufactured by Leaf in Israel ? Why would they have to be sent to Denmark or Sweden ?
Just curious...

Pascal

Hi pascal,

You are indeed correct, Leaf backs are manufactured in Israel, I was talking about the competition.

cheers
Logged
Lawrie Hope
London, UK
Peartree

http://www.peartreephotoshop.co.uk

Kumar

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 754
    • http://www.bskumarphotography.com
MF Digital Back Reliability
« Reply #35 on: February 01, 2010, 05:43:58 pm »

Darius, thanks for clarifying. This is for the Aptus 17 and later models, right? And how would one know which dealer has undergone the requisite training? Leaf would have some kind of list?

Kumar
Logged

Lawrie_Hope

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 45
    • Peartreephoto
MF Digital Back Reliability
« Reply #36 on: February 02, 2010, 04:22:00 am »

Quote from: Kumar
Darius, thanks for clarifying. This is for the Aptus 17 and later models, right? And how would one know which dealer has undergone the requisite training? Leaf would have some kind of list?

Kumar

Hi Kumar,

Actually this applies from the Valeo 17 onwards at present. Don't know whether there is a list that exists, I suppose you just ask your local dealer. Currently Support for the old 'legacy' backs ie some Valeos all Aptus and Aptus S and some Aptus II (with serial number prefix LF) is handled by the old Kodak company and support for new Aptus II (with serial number prefix LI) from the new Leaf Imaging company.
Logged
Lawrie Hope
London, UK
Peartree

http://www.peartreephotoshop.co.uk

jmvdigital

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 125
    • http://www.jmvdigital.com
MF Digital Back Reliability
« Reply #37 on: February 02, 2010, 02:02:42 pm »

I'm going to chime in here since no one seems to hear of any problem with DBs. I've had a few issues with my P30+. The first P30+ I owned suffered from a severe magenta color cast on exactly half of the frame (exacerbated at high ISOs). My dealer swapped me out of that back, and into the P30+ I currently own. This one intermittently has the same half-frame magenta cast (even after being sent out for repair) and also randomly shoots black frames (also sent in for repair on this, to no avail). I have been pressing my dealer for another replacement, but this has been an uphill battle. I also had focusing issues with my Phase AFD body, but that's another deal. Unfortunately, every repair cycle costs me about $100 in shipping. So far I've had to ship various pieces of my MF back and forth at least four times.

I don't doubt the reliability of MFDBs in general, but they aren't perfect.. I think the issues I'm having were existing when the equipment was new, not due to reliability or wear and tear.

-J
Logged
--
Justin VanAlstyne [url=http://www.jmv

lowep

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 568
    • http://sites.google.com/site/peterlowefoto/
MF Digital Back Reliability
« Reply #38 on: February 02, 2010, 04:07:06 pm »

Quote from: jmvdigital
... randomly shoots black frames ...

is it not supposed to do this?
Logged

Dansk

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 151
MF Digital Back Reliability
« Reply #39 on: February 03, 2010, 11:58:54 am »


 Phase one user since the original Lightphase ( 6mp )

Only use tethered systems never shot to a CF with a Phase ( Canon works too nicely for handheld/location work for me ) but I can say that I've only encountered one problem with Phase backs in the 12 or so years I've been using them and it was ENTIRELY MY FAULT. At the time the longest firewire cable available was 16' IIRC but it may have been 11' anyways regardless I was "sold" these little firewire multipliers that worked passively and you simply plugged the firewire in one side and added another cable on the out port and voila you could double your cable length... Well... What I didnt realize was these things were not all that reliable and one day with a three way boosted line I literally put my Phase back up in smoke... Scary day as at the time it was my only back. Anyways some panicked phone calls and a mighty excellent service from Phase with a loaner and I was back in business within a day and the repair took about a week. Never had another single issue with any of the backs I've had or used and I'd hate to guess the total capture numbers but I have terrabytes of final images in my archive.

Phase quality? Better than I would have ever imagined A+++++++++
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Up