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Author Topic: Who Stole My Pixels?  (Read 15645 times)

michael

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Who Stole My Pixels?
« Reply #40 on: January 27, 2010, 06:27:08 pm »

Warren,

Are you being deliberately provocative are do you really not understand this stuff?

Michael
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Plekto

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« Reply #41 on: January 27, 2010, 09:31:18 pm »

Quote from: WarrenMars
Ok, folks, tell me it's been done already...

This has been done with monitors.  Hitachi's Diamondtron technology used a similar arrangement.

Fuji's sensor is similar as well - it has diagonally arranged pixels.  It helps a little.
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WarrenMars

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Who Stole My Pixels?
« Reply #42 on: January 29, 2010, 02:29:52 am »

Quote from: michael
Warren,

Are you being deliberately provocative are do you really not understand this stuff?

Michael
Perhaps, oh Super Administrator, you could dazzle us all with your infinite wisdom and infallible knowledge by contributing to this discussion...
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Schewe

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Who Stole My Pixels?
« Reply #43 on: January 29, 2010, 02:47:56 am »

Quote from: WarrenMars
Perhaps, oh Super Administrator, you could dazzle us all with your infinite wisdom and infallible knowledge by contributing to this discussion...


You are kidding right?

Why the F#%$^CK should Michael bother to follow a thread as stupid as what you have posted here bud?

Seriously, your are a twisted-sister dooode..

I've looked at a variety of web sites you've set up_you don't fall into the category of "somebody who has half a clue".

Michael has a lot more interesting things to spend his time dealing with...

Sorry, I don't meant to speak for Mike (actually, since I'm pretty darn sure he thinks you are a major crackpot-I think I'm not far off) but in the grand scheme of things, what YOU think about ANYTHING seems to fall WAY into the category of "who  the F&CK cares".

Seriously, you shouldn't be wasting the bandwidth...some people actually have a day job.
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Christoph C. Feldhaim

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Who Stole My Pixels?
« Reply #44 on: January 29, 2010, 03:02:05 am »

I believe this thread should be closed.
It's becoming increasingly unpleasant and annoys me each time when
it pops up in the "new posts since your last visit" page ...
And with this I'm off from the thread and won't post on it anymore ....
Sincerely
~Chris

Hywel

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Who Stole My Pixels?
« Reply #45 on: January 29, 2010, 04:48:04 am »

Quote from: WarrenMars
Amazingly Yes! I was so disappointed that I had to get rid of 3/4 of them.  

More seriously, I'm surprised so many of you think interpolation gives you back 3 times the information you actually have! You need 3 colours to make a real pixel, there's just no way around that fact. The extra green is simply a waste of time put there to make the grid a square. Thus it is that in a Bayer array you need 4 pixels to make 1. Your true resolution IS 1/4 the advertised.

You can delude yourself that sophisticated algorithms put back what wasn't there in the first place, but anyone who has studied noise theory should know that is not possible. All you can do is GUESS, which is what interpolation does. Sure, your guesses might be correct a good percentage of the time, but that's not the same thing as having the ACTUAL data. You wanna shoot motor cars and chick's faces? Interpolation is for you! You wanna shoot foliage and landscapes? Better get some more pixels!

Sigh. Warren... just a gentle hint. Please don't claim shock-horror insider knowledge when you are missing the basic, well-understood and UTTERLY public facts about how a digital camera sensor works. Frankly, you're totally clueless right now. Expressing surprise at how a Bayer pattern works, then lecturing us on what the deconvolution algorithms can and can't recover seems a bit... well.. silly.

Not to mention insulting. Has it occured to you that some people on here might understand in considerable depth and detail how all this stuff works- not least, Michael?

Bayer patterns have been around since 1975 and have become the dominant means of imaging RGB with CCD and CMOS for the very good reason that they work extremely well, providing a good sampling of luminance and a lower subsampling of colour, matching human perception fairly well. They are also relatively easy to manufacture and hence cheap to produce, which is why we all have cameras in our mobile phones.

This is well understood- so well understood that it is described in background to the recent Nobel Prize for physics jointly awarded to the inventors of the CCD last year: http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/physics...09/phyadv09.pdf

Get out a nice textbook or two on the subject, please? Go away, and don't come back until you have read and understood them, and the 45+ year old physics on which they are based (and the 100+ year old statistics behind them, too). Your posts are just trolling right now.

Hywel
« Last Edit: January 29, 2010, 05:00:10 am by Hywel »
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stamper

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« Reply #46 on: January 29, 2010, 06:01:41 am »

I think this sums up the situation?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29

Rob C

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« Reply #47 on: January 29, 2010, 07:02:52 am »

Actually, I hadn't felt the thread become 'unpleasant' until the Resident Rottweiler bit again.

I, for one, am far from expert on these matters and am rapidly coming to the conclusion that many other people are keeping me company without being aware of it. Indeed, I am starting to believe that there is probably much lack of definitive information or understanding of this topic that extends right up to camera manufacturers. How else to account for some of the problems that new cameras exhibit?

I think that part of the problem is that we are stepping into a world where some willingly accept being misled, in the sense of false claims - an acceptance of ad-speak, shall we say - which is what I see underlying the posted replies of 'it gives great prints, so it doesn't matter' which, to me, is nothing more than the same thing reflected in the willing acceptance of poor quality control or false claims for zoom lens performance. I'm sorry, but I think that companies should indeed be held to the letter of their published claims; why should we be slipping into this easy belief that it isn't important if exaggerated claims are made for a product? It darn well does matter; slippery slopes are just that. Look around us all at the world of newspapers, television and politics, never mind marketing, and you would be blind to miss the fact that we are being conned every minute of the day; this is acceptable? Laissez-faire is a dangerous attitude.

Rob C
« Last Edit: January 29, 2010, 07:04:05 am by Rob C »
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stamper

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Who Stole My Pixels?
« Reply #48 on: January 29, 2010, 08:21:55 am »

Profit motive is the reason for this. If I want to buy a product such as a camera or a lens then I will go to the manufacturer's site and look at the specifications. I will then look through some forums such as this and try and sort the wheat from the chaff. I will look at a couple of magazines. If I am buying then I will cross my fingers and hope what I have read is worthwhile? Remember very few photographer's - or other consumers - will admit to buying a poor product? The worst comment is .... I have one and I am luvving it? There are of course trolls in forums, the misinformed who won't change their mind if you hit them over the head with a hammer and those, as you mentioned Rob, who have never learned manners and continue to use ill informed posting techniques? Sometimes all of us are wrong and rarely admit it? An abundance of common sense goes a long way?

NikoJorj

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« Reply #49 on: January 29, 2010, 08:56:45 am »

Quote from: Rob C
Indeed, I am starting to believe that there is probably much lack of definitive information or understanding of this topic that extends right up to camera manufacturers. How else to account for some of the problems that new cameras exhibit?
You mean, it's a color moiré pattern issued from Bayer pattern demosaicing that did misguide the alien pilots and lead to Roswell's crash, and it's that truth that has been covered up ever since by the people of Xenu?
« Last Edit: January 29, 2010, 08:59:47 am by NikoJorj »
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Nicolas from Grenoble
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michael

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Who Stole My Pixels?
« Reply #50 on: January 29, 2010, 09:27:09 am »

This thread is now closed.

Mr. Mars – please do some basic reading on a topic before posting here again. This isn't DPreview.

(I took my nice pill this morning, otherwise I'd be more sarcastic.)

Michael
« Last Edit: January 29, 2010, 09:29:13 am by michael »
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