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Author Topic: Are larger prints "weaker" by nature?  (Read 6609 times)

BobDavid

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Are larger prints "weaker" by nature?
« Reply #20 on: January 21, 2010, 07:33:17 pm »

Quote from: Dick Roadnight
For a print to be really strong you need to print at not more than (or preferable exactly) 360 (or 240) original camera pixels per print inch, especially if you use a camera with an anti-aliasing filter... so using a triple stitch back, I do not expect to regularly print bigger than 24 * 41".

Raw processing, Photoshop and genuine fractals can help.

You can print a big print at 150dpi and it looks great. I always punch up the contrast when I make bigger prints.
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Ray

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Are larger prints "weaker" by nature?
« Reply #21 on: January 21, 2010, 08:47:52 pm »

Quote from: Wayne Fox
Think we've all done that.

I've never, never, never, ever done that. It was the very first thing I learned when I got my first printer. But I've made other stupid mistakes   .
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Geoff Wittig

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Are larger prints "weaker" by nature?
« Reply #22 on: January 23, 2010, 09:19:36 am »

Quote from: Jonathan Wienke
All local contrast adjustment does is compensate (somewhat) for lower resolution/detail per print area inherent to larger print size. That is an entirely separate issue from actual colors changing from small print to large...

Gotta disagree there.

There are significant perceptual differences for color and tone imposed by changes in scale. I first noticed this, oddly enough, way back when I built scale models of airplanes and tanks. (Yes, I was a dork. Went with being a history major.) You could pick the precisely correct paint color for a given subject, an exact match for the real thing, yet when you looked at your completed 1:35 scale model the color looked very obviously too dark. This perceptual problem is well understood by experienced modelers, who end up lightening the paint colors by an amount determined by trial and error to get something that looks right. There are also differences in shadow vs. highlight perception imposed by scale. Larger subjects tend to have perceptually more 'open' shadows; there's enough light bouncing around that we can see into the shadow areas more easily than with smaller subjects. It's true for both prints and 3-dimensional objects. That's why for larger prints you may want to darken the shadows a bit to get back to the same perceived tonal balance.

John Paul Caponigro's bit about adjusting tonality for the scale of the print is addressing exactly this issue. It's a perceptual quirk of human vision, not a principle of physics, so there's no way to measure it. You can measure precisely the same density in the shadows of a large print or a small one with your spectrophotometer; but they will look different to your eye because of the effect of scale on perception. Caponigro's rule of thumb (darken the print with a curves adjustment by 1% at the midpoint for every doubling of print area) generally gets you close; after that it's "season to taste".
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Neuffy

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Are larger prints "weaker" by nature?
« Reply #23 on: January 23, 2010, 10:32:03 am »

Quote from: Geoff Wittig
Gotta disagree there.

Gotta agree here. Additionally, I've actually noticed that there are a number of images which are overprocessed by my taste that begin to work as they get large enough. There's a local photographer who does small mounted prints as well as huge canvasses of HDR-processed scenes, and the small ones hurt. They're really, really bad. The large canvasses though? They work. They're much, much better.

Jonathan Wienke

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Are larger prints "weaker" by nature?
« Reply #24 on: January 23, 2010, 12:46:17 pm »

Perhaps the "size effect" on perception varies by individual then. As I've said before, I've printed the same image file at 4x6 and 24x36, and not noticed any differences between the prints (other than sharpness/resolution) comparing them side by side. If it's strictly a perceptual illusion, then it's highly unlikely it affects everyone exactly equally.
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howseth

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Are larger prints "weaker" by nature?
« Reply #25 on: January 23, 2010, 03:12:01 pm »

I have found the experience of looking at a 5" x 8" image - as compared to the same image at 22" x 32" - is huge - regardless of whatever way it is printed. (As I have recently experienced with my own work going both quite big and quite small with the same images.) Kind of like the difference between peering at a secret note - compared to entering a doorway.

Howard
« Last Edit: January 23, 2010, 03:14:42 pm by howseth »
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milt

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Are larger prints "weaker" by nature?
« Reply #26 on: January 24, 2010, 03:48:54 pm »

I'd like to second the comment about HDR.  I've frequently noticed that an HDR that has been adjusted to look realistic when viewed full-size onscreen, will look "HDR-ey" when viewed as a thumbnail.  (I don't know if this is the same effect as John Paul Caponigro is discussing or not.)

As an aside: there's a kind of interesting article on color perception in the Feb Scientific American.

--Milt--
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