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Author Topic: Grey market? Knockoffs?  (Read 5197 times)

DarkPenguin

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Grey market? Knockoffs?
« on: January 13, 2010, 01:17:21 pm »

So Maxsaver.net has the filter I want for about 1/2 the price of B+H.  There is some claim that these are legit from the asian market.  But at that price I really don't believe it.  How on earth do you find out?  People have asked B+W and they simply state that they are not an official reseller so go to an official reseller.
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bill t.

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« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2010, 03:09:42 pm »

Well of course it's real!  It's not like there's some place over there in Asia where they knock stuff like this off, what a silly thought!  And it's got "Germany" stamped right on it, that should be proof enough.
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tokengirl

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« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2010, 04:32:32 pm »

Quote from: DarkPenguin
People have asked B+W and they simply state that they are not an official reseller so go to an official reseller.

Well, if they're not an official reseller, they're not getting them from B+W.  So ask yourself where are they getting them from that they can afford to sell them for HALF PRICE?  

Stop wishing.  Get the filter from a reputable official reseller, have Ramen Noodles for lunch for a few days and enjoy your new filter.  
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feppe

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« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2010, 04:46:10 pm »

Quote from: tokengirl
Well, if they're not an official reseller, they're not getting them from B+W.  So ask yourself where are they getting them from that they can afford to sell them for HALF PRICE?  

Stop wishing.  Get the filter from a reputable official reseller, have Ramen Noodles for lunch for a few days and enjoy your new filter.

It is possible it is from the very same factory as the official filters, just not branded. Happens to Nokia and other big boys, so there's no reason it couldn't happen in filters.

Of course it would mean manufacturing and buying such a product is legally and morally in the gray area, at best.

Jonathan Wienke

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« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2010, 05:01:40 pm »

"1/2 the price of B+H" = scam.
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tokengirl

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« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2010, 05:04:38 pm »

Quote from: feppe
It is possible it is from the very same factory as the official filters, just not branded.

And probably not inspected very well for quality control purposes either.
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ckimmerle

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« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2010, 06:12:18 pm »

I've had no dealings with them, but there are many, many who have. Some have complaints, the vast majority seem happy. I did a lot of looking when this topic was posted and couldn't find many cohesive complaints. Lots of warnings from folks who have never dealt with them, but not too many complaints from actual customers. Didn't find any posts about fake filters, either, although fakes can be very good.

As for them not being an authorized B+W retailer, that doesn't mean much. Grey market goods are always cheaper than authorized imports. I don't know what the mark-up is for photo filters but, as with all accessories, I'm sure it's excessive.

Not sure what your filter is going for from B&H as opposed to MaxSaver, but if the purchase price is, for you, affordable it might be worth the risk. Personally, I'm not sure I'd go for it without seeing, firsthand, the quality of product they're selling.

Still, it might be nice for the rest of us if you buy a few filters and let us know how it went  
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Sheldon N

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« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2010, 06:14:41 pm »

I'm going to go against the mob on this one... I've bought from maxsaver.net (formerly HVStar) several times before with no issues.

I've bought B+W filters from both B&H and HVStar/Maxsaver and they are identical. Same finely machined solid brass rings, same quality, same glass, same coatings. I read up a lot on people who've bought from them and found almost everyone to have the same opinion... identical product at cheaper prices.

They aren't really all that much cheaper on a lot of the B+W filters, but they are cheaper on Hoya for sure. I have a Hoya HD 77mm polarizer on order from them that should arrive within the week. It was $105 vs $227 at B&H Photo. If you'd like I can compare it against my 77mm B+W Kaessman polarizer (purchased from B&H) once it arrives.

It makes sense that they are cheaper on Hoya, being close to production and outside US distribution channels and markup. And besides, how much of the cost of that filter is markup? I imagine there's a huge margin.

As a sidebar, check out what 2filter.com (a reputable US based reseller) had to say about the ridiculous markup on the Hoya HD filters. They are ceasing to carry Hoya because of this issue...

http://2filter.com/hoya/HoyaHDpricemarketing.html

Anyhow, I can recommend MaxSaver.net.
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Sheldon Nalos
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DarkPenguin

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« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2010, 06:35:41 pm »

Interesting.  It is actually the Hoya HD filters that I'm looking at.  I've only been able to find information about the B+W filters they sell.

It would be interesting to see your comparison.

Thanks for everyone's help.
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Sheldon N

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« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2010, 07:10:16 pm »

I'll post my impressions once it arrives.

Thanks!
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tim wolcott

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« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2010, 08:00:05 pm »

When I went to Antarctica, all my friends said that I had to get some B&W polarizers due to the glare.  So I looked on ebay and there was some people selling the filters for half the price.  So I bought them and then went to Sammy's in L.A. and they were exactly the same no difference.  So I have been telling everyone who takes my workshops to buy them there also.  Since then we have bought nuetral density filter ect.  No problems, just saving some money.  

Authorized or not.  Its the same products.  Remember lots of these companies do this on purpose to satisfy both markets.  They were not really intended to be sold to the states or other areas by these guys but the world is a big place and the internet has made it easy.  Tim
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Justan

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« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2010, 10:32:56 am »

What is the risk? What’s the return policy? Sounds as if you don’t like it, at least sell it on CL if not here…

DarkPenguin

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« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2010, 08:18:07 pm »

Quote from: Justan
What is the risk? What's the return policy? Sounds as if you don't like it, at least sell it on CL if not here…

Well, if they are selling junk then I doubt I'd trust their return policy.  Likewise if it is junk there is no way I could represent it as anything other than junk when trying to sell it.  So I'm trying to do some homework.
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Justan

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« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2010, 11:16:23 pm »

Homework is good but what is the cost of the item(s) you are thinking of buying?

If you pay with a credit card you are about 99% assured of recourse for everything but the aggravation, should there be a problem. As an aside AMEX is the best (imho) for this. If in doubt, contact the credit card company and ask.



Sheldon N

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« Reply #14 on: January 21, 2010, 05:19:11 pm »

So my Hoya HD filter arrived today. I have to say everything looks legit. Packaging, etc is all very high grade. The coatings look VERY nice, build quality is very good for Hoya (not quite as good as B+W though, which I didn't expect), it's certainly slimmer than my B+W filter. I am fully convinced that it's legit, and the price was very good. $105 with free shipping, plus they threw in a Tiffen filter holder.  

Heading off to shoot sunset on the mountain, I'll post further impressions once I've had a chance to shoot more with it.
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Sheldon Nalos
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DarkPenguin

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« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2010, 12:02:17 pm »

Quote from: Sheldon N
So my Hoya HD filter arrived today. I have to say everything looks legit. Packaging, etc is all very high grade. The coatings look VERY nice, build quality is very good for Hoya (not quite as good as B+W though, which I didn't expect), it's certainly slimmer than my B+W filter. I am fully convinced that it's legit, and the price was very good. $105 with free shipping, plus they threw in a Tiffen filter holder.  

Heading off to shoot sunset on the mountain, I'll post further impressions once I've had a chance to shoot more with it.

Very cool.  I like the anti theft inclusion of the tiffen filter holder.
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Mike Bailey

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« Reply #16 on: January 24, 2010, 06:32:15 am »

Well, their return policy is fairly restrictive and it reads as if you're not likely to get a refund if the item is still in stock.  The best they offer is a replacement or repair, plus you are responsible for all shipping, handling and other related costs to and From Hong Kong.  You can be sure that from this the least expensive, most profitable path would be taken, i.e. repair.  Sounds like a buyer beware situation.  Look at the B&H return policy for a clear and actual return statement.

Mike

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