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Author Topic: Printing problem  (Read 2972 times)

Gellman

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Printing problem
« on: January 07, 2010, 03:41:10 pm »

Most of the work I do is for the web, thus my profiled NEC 2690 monitor has served me well. However, I am ready to begin doing some serious printing, and my printed output does not match what I am seeing on my monitor. Everything is printing about a stop or more too dark.

I am using –

CPU:
   MacBook Pro with 10.5.8
Monitor:
   NEC 2690WUXi2 with Spectraview II software and NEC puck
   Calibrated to White Point D65, Gamma 220, Intensity 80 cd/m2
Printer:
   Epson 3800 printer with standard Epson inks
Papers:
  Epson Exhibition Fiber with PixelGenius canned profile
  Harman Gloss FB Al with Harman canned profile
  Eric Chan’s canned ABW profiles for both of the above
Software:
   Lightroom 2.4
   Photoshop CS4

It is entirely possible that I am doing something wrong while printing from Photoshop or Lightroom, but I have read extensive instructions, and think I have followed every step properly.

If my workflow is correct, then it seems reasonable to begin using custom printing profiles. If I still have the same problem after installing custom printer profiles, then I would know for sure that my problem is with my workflow.  (Or possibly a hardware problem, but I think that is unlikely.)

Does my thinking seem reasonable to you experts out there?

If I was going to stick solely with the 2 papers mentioned above, I would order some custom profiles from the Digital Dog or MadmanChan, or someone else.  But since I want to use other papers as well, would I be better off getting a Color Munki? Could I do just the printer profiles with a Color Munki? I'd like to stick with the NEC Spectraview stuff for the monitor.

Thanks in advance to all who may be able to offer some advice.

John Gellman
« Last Edit: January 07, 2010, 04:02:31 pm by ncjohnboy »
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Ryan Grayley

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Printing problem
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2010, 04:09:47 pm »

Quote from: ncjohnboy
Most of the work I do is for the web, thus my profiled NEC 2690 monitor has served me well. However, I am ready to begin doing some serious printing, and my printed output does not match what I am seeing on my monitor. Everything is printing about a stop or more too dark.

I am using –

CPU:
   MacBook Pro with 10.5.8
Monitor:
   NEC 2690WUXi2 with Spectraview II software and NEC puck
   Calibrated to White Point D65, Gamma 220, Intensity 80 cd/m2
Printer:
   Epson 3800 printer with standard Epson inks
Papers:
  Epson Exhibition Fiber with PixelGenius canned profile
  Harman Gloss FB Al with Harman canned profile
  Eric Chan’s canned ABW profiles for both of the above
Software:
   Lightroom 2.4
   Photoshop CS4

Experiment with an earlier version of Photoshop or if you have access to a Windows PC, try the 30 day trial of Photoshop CS4.
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RGB Arts Ltd, London, UK

Gellman

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Printing problem
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2010, 04:15:37 pm »

Ionaca - Thanks, but Windows is not an option for me, nor is an earlier version of Photoshop.

John
« Last Edit: January 07, 2010, 04:16:26 pm by ncjohnboy »
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Pat Herold

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Printing problem
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2010, 04:17:27 pm »

Hi John,

As Ryan says, there are some issues with printing in CS4.

Also, what kind of lighting are you viewing these prints under?  With your luminance at 80, it is surprising that you report your prints being too dark compared to your screen.  Before you run out and get a custom profile, try the "white paper test."  This is a favorite of mine.  Open up a blank image in Photoshop (with a white background) and hold up a blank sheet of your printing paper.  If the white of the screen does not match the white of the paper, you will not have success getting the actual display image to match the print.  If your display is brighter (even at 80) then your print will be too dark by comparison.   You would either turn down your display brightness more or work at improving your lighting situation.
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David Sutton

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Printing problem
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2010, 04:23:24 pm »

Usually dark prints are caused by the monitor being too bright, but I see you already have it 20 cd/m2 below mine, and I'm getting a fairly good match between print and screen with the 3800 and Harman Gloss.
Two suggestions come to mind: wait until the next day to compare print and screen, and when you do try having the print in a different room.
I've found the Harman canned profile quite good and the Epson profiles very good. Generally better than my own done with a 225 patch target, and have yet to try a 729 patch target for comparison. The Harman paper generally needs little work when softproofing.
When you are softproofing do you have the original file and the softproofed versions open side by side on screen?
My monitor is calibrated to native white point and L* (I've forgotten what that means) but I'm guessing that should make no difference to your problem.
Good luck, David
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Alan Goldhammer

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Printing problem
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2010, 04:29:18 pm »

The Epson profile from Pixel Genius is excellent and should provide you with good results.  I also have a ABW profile from Eric Chan that I use on my 2880.  As was noted by another poster, you may be having a problem in how you view the prints.  I don't have the room (or inclination) for a separate viewing box but what I did was get a Solux clamp on light (see:  https://www.solux.net/cgi-bin/tlistore/clampon.html) that I have right next to my printer and monitor.  I can look at prints and quite easily compare them to what is on the monitor screen.  What you think is a too dark print, may actually be correct.  I have another light fixture in the work room where I do matting and framing and that allows me to spread out several pictures for comparison.

Hope this helps.
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David Sutton

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Printing problem
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2010, 04:30:57 pm »

Hi John. Another thought. I'm printing sometimes from CS3 but mainly Qimage on a PC. Can you try a trial version of Qimage in bootcamp to eliminate the the possibility the problem is with CS4?
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Gellman

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Printing problem
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2010, 04:50:50 pm »

I am having the same problem whether printing from PS CS4 or from Lightroom, so I don't think CS4 is the problem. I am using a Solux light source to evaluate prints. They look just as bad the next day. If everyone is having such good results with the same canned profiles I am using, maybe I need to take another look at my workflow. I think I see a purchase of "From Camera to Print" in my immediate future.

John
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PeterAit

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Printing problem
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2010, 02:26:16 pm »

Quote from: ncjohnboy
I am having the same problem whether printing from PS CS4 or from Lightroom, so I don't think CS4 is the problem. I am using a Solux light source to evaluate prints. They look just as bad the next day. If everyone is having such good results with the same canned profiles I am using, maybe I need to take another look at my workflow. I think I see a purchase of "From Camera to Print" in my immediate future.

John

You're not double color managing, are you? You should have PS or LR manage colors and make sure color management is off in the printer driver. Usually this results in "off" colors rather than too dark prints, but it's worth checking.
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Marco Ugolini

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Printing problem
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2010, 04:22:10 am »

Quote from: ncjohnboy
It is entirely possible that I am doing something wrong while printing from Photoshop or Lightroom, but I have read extensive instructions, and think I have followed every step properly.
Just for the sake of knowing, please describe exactly how you print from Photoshop, as an example. What settings do you use in its Print dialog box, and which settings you use in the printer driver too?

Quote from: ncjohnboy
If my workflow is correct, then it seems reasonable to begin using custom printing profiles.
I would think that if your prints are one whole stop or more too dark, the problem is with something other than the profile itself, canned or custom. A canned profile would possibly be off in color somewhat, but would be unlikely to cause a print that is that much darker.

Another possibility, as others are suggesting, is that the monitor has been improperly calibrated and profiled, and appears too light, consequently causing the print to look darker than what is viewed on screen.
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Shirley Bracken

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Printing problem
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2010, 08:42:37 am »

This is all good information as it helps me look through these problems.  I could not get my prints to look bright enough.  By just reading behind all of you, I have found generic RGB, among many other things.  So far, it's the only one that allows me to bypass the printers CM.  I don't exactly understand it yet, but it works until I learn my own flow.  I am only now learning what to even ask.

I have almost finished From "Camera to print".  It is very good, packed with information and they get right to it.  They are a good pair.  They just keep clipping along.  They are respectful of one another and keep the conversation totally focused.  I'm sure that every time I view it, I will get more and more as I'm ready to accept it into my old brain.  I am so at the beginning of printing but I'm getting a lot of information here, thanks.

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