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Author Topic: Leaf Aptus battery recharging woes  (Read 15956 times)

asf

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Leaf Aptus battery recharging woes
« Reply #20 on: January 07, 2010, 12:57:15 pm »

Quote from: Steve Hendrix
I have confirmation that there will be support for Legacy Aptus files for Capture One without any warranty upgrade or dollars changing hands. This is for file compatibility only, tethered support has not yet been determined, regardless of warranty status, etc.

The only gottcha may be Aptus 17 support, but there's no reason why if there is commitment for compatibility for all other Aptus that the 17 would be excluded. However, I can only confirm support for all Aptus models and likely support for Aptus 17. As soon as I receive confirmation on the Aptus 17, I'll let you know.


Steve Hendrix

Ok, so it's murky, but slightly less murky. At least you have some kind of answer. You may or may not be able to use C1 with the A17 files.

While I think making C1 work with legacy files without money changing hands is the appropriate decision, as a dealer how do you justify the $2600 upgrade to your clientele, considering this economy and the state of the competition ($2600 is roughly the price of a d700 or 5d2 body, half the price of a used A22 from a private seller, and 1/3 the price of a used A75 or new Aptus II-5)?
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Steve Hendrix

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Leaf Aptus battery recharging woes
« Reply #21 on: January 07, 2010, 01:18:11 pm »

Quote from: asf
Ok, so it's murky, but slightly less murky. At least you have some kind of answer. You may or may not be able to use C1 with the A17 files.

While I think making C1 work with legacy files without money changing hands is the appropriate decision, as a dealer how do you justify the $2600 upgrade to your clientele, considering this economy and the state of the competition ($2600 is roughly the price of a d700 or 5d2 body, half the price of a used A22 from a private seller, and 1/3 the price of a used A75 or new Aptus II-5)?


Correct - not murky for Aptus 22 and higher in terms of file compatibility support with Capture One, but still not clear on Aptus 17.

As a Leaf dealer, I have not pushed any customers towards purchasing an extended warranty for $2,600 for the sole purpose of Capture One compatibility precisely because I'm not clear whether they will have to yet. So with that removed, this becomes an option for those who choose to extend their warranty primarily for warranty coverage purposes.

Usually purchasers of extended warranties have justified that purchase to themselves. Few clients call me and ask me would I recommend buying additional warranty. But those that do then take part in a discussion about their current investment and how they use it, how long they plan to continue to use it, alternatives to coverage (cheap backups, etc).


Steve Hendrix
« Last Edit: January 07, 2010, 01:19:34 pm by Steve Hendrix »
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RichA@FotoCare

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Leaf Aptus battery recharging woes
« Reply #22 on: January 07, 2010, 03:14:21 pm »

Yes I 'm asking for confirmation also from Phase-Leaf.  This situation isn't clear and I'm about to send systems in to Phase-Leaf and want to get the correct story.

As a LONG time Leaf dealer we were told to have compatibility with Capture One, older Aptus backs Pre-Phase purchase of Leaf, would need to have their firmware upgraded (sent to Phase) by purchasing the 2 year Extended Warranty to use Capture One.  This story changed several times at Photo Expo and I thought was corrected and sorted out because of the uproar it caused.

Extended Warranties are a game of risk.  Do you believe that your system will have a problem and do you what to have coverage.  Manufactures believe you wont have a problem and want your money - it becomes a profit center for them.  

Currently if you own a PrePhase Leaf back purchased from Leaf America/your dealer, your service and support is still provided by MAC Group in Elmsford NY (AKA Leaf America).  Here in NYC I generally get 1-2 day turn around of Leaf warranty repairs - out of warranty repairs.  If your one of my customers, depending on the age of your back and when purchased, you get a loaner system if needed.  A customer with warranty coverage is always offered a loaner.  A customer with a back purchased several years ago ( Valeo 6, Valeo 11, Valeo 22) and no warranty maybe a reduced rate rental.  If you by a new Leaf back your service is now provided by Phase-Leaf.

One consideration for out of warranty repairs is that the prices have changed!  A repair that was maybe $400-$600 is now up to $1300 +/- because the change in parts cost.  Leaf Aptus owners should consider that the previous extended warranties were any where from $3000-$4500 per year, Phase-Leaf 2 year Extended warranty is $2600.00 for two years.

 I'm not saying one way or another what you should do, but you should consider all cost and risk as far as software goes I want an answer as badly as anyone.  I'm waiting on my answer on file compatibility and tethered compatibility for Aptus series backs, there's no reason why this needs to be murky.  I'd also prefer not to provide inaccurate information.

Best,
Rich Andres
Foto Care
NY, NY
212-741-2990
« Last Edit: January 07, 2010, 03:17:05 pm by RichA@FotoCare »
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Steve Hendrix

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Leaf Aptus battery recharging woes
« Reply #23 on: January 07, 2010, 03:59:07 pm »

Quote from: RichA@FotoCare
I'm not saying one way or another what you should do, but you should consider all cost and risk as far as software goes I want an answer as badly as anyone.  I'm waiting on my answer on file compatibility and tethered compatibility for Aptus series backs, there's no reason why this needs to be murky.  I'd also prefer not to provide inaccurate information.


Rich, I understand you have to get your own information.

As for our company, we will stand by what I have posted so far as coming from the horses mouth as of yesterday. As far as C1 file compatibility, the only murkiness is regarding the Aptus 17. File support will be there for Aptus 22 and higher. Tethered support has not yet been decided for non-Aptus II DB's yet.

This is accurate information. This is what I have been told directly by Leaf management.

Does this mean it is guaranteed to happen? No, and only believe it 100% when you see it. But the pattern has been set when they stated support for Aptus II files and it happened, so the fact they are saying the same for Aptus 22 and higher seems very likely to happen as Leaf management has stated as such. There is no reason for them not to and no reason for them to charge any fees or require any warranty because it has nothing to do with the firmware of the digital back itself. Just file compatibility which they have already accomplished with the Aptus II series.

So - bottom line, I don't see it as murky at all. Leaf has stated their intention with file compatibility and that nothing is required for it.


Steve Hendrix
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asf

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Leaf Aptus battery recharging woes
« Reply #24 on: January 07, 2010, 04:27:56 pm »

Quote from: Steve Hendrix
Does this mean it is guaranteed to happen? No, and only believe it 100% when you see it. But the pattern has been set when they stated support for Aptus II files and it happened, so the fact they are saying the same for Aptus 22 and higher seems very likely to happen as Leaf management has stated as such. There is no reason for them not to and no reason for them to charge any fees or require any warranty because it has nothing to do with the firmware of the digital back itself. Just file compatibility which they have already accomplished with the Aptus II series.

So - bottom line, I don't see it as murky at all. Leaf has stated their intention with file compatibility and that nothing is required for it.

Steve Hendrix

Until it happens, and until the guy with the A17 has a real answer, it's still murky. For me, as long as LC is still going I don't care about C1.

I appreciate both your previous answer and Rich's.

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Steve Hendrix

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Leaf Aptus battery recharging woes
« Reply #25 on: January 07, 2010, 04:45:54 pm »

Quote from: asf
Until it happens, and until the guy with the A17 has a real answer, it's still murky. For me, as long as LC is still going I don't care about C1.

I appreciate both your previous answer and Rich's.


Yes, I agree, that until it happens it could be considered murky, or vaporware, to use another term.

But Leaf's position with regard to file compatibility - other than the Aptus 17 - is now clarified.

And yes, until something is in your hand, it is not real.


Steve Hendrix
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RichA@FotoCare

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Leaf Aptus battery recharging woes
« Reply #26 on: January 07, 2010, 05:11:38 pm »

Quote from: Steve Hendrix
Rich, I understand you have to get your own information.

As for our company, we will stand by what I have posted so far as coming from the horses mouth as of yesterday. As far as C1 file compatibility, the only murkiness is regarding the Aptus 17. File support will be there for Aptus 22 and higher. Tethered support has not yet been decided for non-Aptus II DB's yet.

This is accurate information. This is what I have been told directly by Leaf management.

Does this mean it is guaranteed to happen? No, and only believe it 100% when you see it. But the pattern has been set when they stated support for Aptus II files and it happened, so the fact they are saying the same for Aptus 22 and higher seems very likely to happen as Leaf management has stated as such. There is no reason for them not to and no reason for them to charge any fees or require any warranty because it has nothing to do with the firmware of the digital back itself. Just file compatibility which they have already accomplished with the Aptus II series.

So - bottom line, I don't see it as murky at all. Leaf has stated their intention with file compatibility and that nothing is required for it.


Steve Hendrix

Hi Steve, still murky to me!  I guess the difference between a Leaf dealer and a Phase - new Leaf dealer, no ill will intended, just frustration on dealer support. Does from the horses mouth mean Claus or Dov & Ziv or all three?  Since you talked to them yesterday why would there be murkiness regarding an Aptus 17 file vs. an Aptus 22 or higher other then a decision on their part on what to support? What's the difference in MOS file that there wouldn't be support for a 17? Since I haven't received written word on status maybe you can help me out, what's product # SD-1274 and the * Includes Firmware upgrade/future sw compatibility mean since the support is there for the files in the software?  Does Aptus II mean all Aptus II's or just new units purchased from Phase-Leaf?  Steve as a dealer who provides excellent customer support I hope you can understand my frustration of not having the correct information to support Leaf, a brand that we have loyally supported for over 15 years.  As Leaf dealers we should all have the proper support information for our customers, new or old.  I hope to have some answers from Claus, Wayne, and Drew soon.
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derekkwong

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« Reply #27 on: January 07, 2010, 05:32:57 pm »

Thanks Rich and Steve's quick answer.

Why c1 is going to support all files of aptus, but probably no A17?
Does it mean leaf/phase has no more software support for A17s?

I am really frustrated with Leaf...
« Last Edit: January 07, 2010, 05:36:27 pm by derekkwong »
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Steve Hendrix

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Leaf Aptus battery recharging woes
« Reply #28 on: January 07, 2010, 06:10:43 pm »

Quote from: derekkwong
Thanks Rich and Steve's quick answer.

Why c1 is going to support all files of aptus, but probably no A17?
Does it mean leaf/phase has no more software support for A17s?

I am really frustrated with Leaf...


The indications I have are that it is more probable rather than probably not. But no firm answer yet.


Steve Hendrix
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rogerxnz

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Leaf Aptus battery recharging woes
« Reply #29 on: January 08, 2010, 03:58:03 am »

I thank everyone for their input although it is amazing how my query about battery recharging has turned into a discussion about Leaf file compatibility with Phase C1!

Anyhow, it seems that my charger is fine and it works with generic mains power cables. The fault lies with the two batteries which failed at the same time, thereby making me think that the problem must be with the charger or the cable because the chance of two batteries failing on the same day seemed unreal.

I now just need to buy some more batteries.
Roger

Quote from: yaya
Roger, I replied on the Leaf forum as well but basically a Red light means no charge, typically due to a faulty battery but in your case it does sound like the charger is broken.

There are many chargers in the market but in my experience the Hahnel and the Samsung are the fastest.

Yair
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Roger Hayman
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yaya

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Leaf Aptus battery recharging woes
« Reply #30 on: January 08, 2010, 05:13:47 am »

To Roger and all, as a general advice I would say that in normal-regular use, most high capacity Li-ion batteries used with power hungry devices (such as digital backs) tend to loose from their ability to hold charge after 8-12 months. So if your batteries after a few months start loosing charge quickly, you should replace them or a least get some fresh ones and mark the old ones as "destined for the bin"...

Yair

PS and I'm surprised it did not turn into a DSLR Vs MFDB discussion  
« Last Edit: January 08, 2010, 05:15:15 am by yaya »
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UlfKrentz

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Leaf Aptus battery recharging woes
« Reply #31 on: January 08, 2010, 05:47:39 am »

Quote from: yaya
PS and I'm surprised it did not turn into a DSLR Vs MFDB discussion  

:-))

It still can!

Cheers, Ulf

ixpressraf

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Leaf Aptus battery recharging woes
« Reply #32 on: January 08, 2010, 06:08:37 am »

The batteries in my canon G12 last like forever so they must be much better then those expensive MF batteries!!!
No MF VS DSLR but MF VS point and shoot ;-)
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Carsten W

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« Reply #33 on: January 08, 2010, 07:03:44 am »

Quote from: ixpressraf
my canon G12

Beta testing, or just guessing at the battery life of the next Canon G?
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bcooter

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Leaf Aptus battery recharging woes
« Reply #34 on: January 08, 2010, 12:30:35 pm »

Quote from: yaya
PS and I'm surprised it did not turn into a DSLR Vs MFDB discussion


Mr. Yair,

No I think lately we've been adequately covered with information, comparisons and these quotes  from medium format dealers, reps, ex-reps,  consultants and associates;

__________________


"but development for the other P+ backs is underway. Not sure of a time frame."

"a specific adapter plate for 4x5" cameras was never planned and done"

"They're working on long exposures"

"They're not the only manufacture that makes announcements but then doesn't deliver."

"Unlike other brands, Contax 645, Kodak DCS digital back, where there were no improvements or developments,"

"Leaf never "went under", Kodak decided to divest themselves of Leaf."

"Concerning the eSprit 65, I can't confirm this for sure, that production has stopped,"

"I started posting to give a alternative option/opinion on a board dominated by Phase and other dealers."

"35mm has been the ones running after pixels."

"We shall see when the bodies-systems get shipped."

"The difference is the the TFT screen on the CF is 2.25" and the CFII is 2.5"."

"still murky to me!"

"just frustration on dealer support."

"Since I haven't received written word on status maybe you can help me out, what's product # SD-1274"

"Does Aptus II mean all Aptus II's or just new units purchased from Phase-Leaf?"

"The indications I have are that it is more probable rather than probably not. But no firm answer yet."

"Tethered support has not yet been decided for non-Aptus II DB's yet. "

"Does this mean it is guaranteed to happen? No, and only believe it 100% when you see it."

"Extended Warranties are a game of risk."

"A repair that was maybe $400-$600 is now up to $1300 +/- "

"I'm waiting on my answer on file compatibility and tethered compatibility"

"the photosites are then not smaller. That is one advantage medium format has over 35mm"

"how is the work completed, how long it takes, when will the software be completed."

"The view-in-bw option is present on the P40+ and P65+ but is not available in previous versions."

"(such as digital backs) tend to loose from their ability to hold charge after 8-12 months."

"I bought a 32G Extreme 60 for my P45+ and it didn't work, so I left it in my Canon where it works phenomenally well. Phase even sent me a beta firmware upgrade for the P45+ to try, and it didn't work with that either"

"I don't blame anyone being skeptical of a dealer one bit."

"I'm not saying there was anything intentional, something is wrong with your files. But mine are right, I know they're right, and anyone familiar with Phase One and Hassleblad files and how they compare knows they're right."

"This is accurate information."

__________________

Thank You and keep the system working.
Linda
http://www.dhs.gov/
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RichA@FotoCare

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Leaf Aptus battery recharging woes
« Reply #35 on: January 08, 2010, 04:09:15 pm »

Quote from: bcooter
Mr. Yair,

No I think lately we've been adequately covered with information, comparisons and these quotes  from medium format dealers, reps, ex-reps,  consultants and associates;

_____etc  etc_____________

Thank You and keep the system working.
Linda
http://www.dhs.gov/


Nice! I have almost half the quotes!

Best,
Rich Andres
Foto Care
NY, NY
212-741-2990
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yaya

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« Reply #36 on: January 08, 2010, 04:50:51 pm »

Quote from: bcooter
Linda
http://www.dhs.gov/

But it says Susan?!
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UlfKrentz

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« Reply #37 on: January 08, 2010, 05:57:18 pm »

Quote from: bcooter
Mr. Yair,

No I think lately we've been adequately covered with information, comparisons and these quotes  from medium format dealers, reps, ex-reps,  consultants and associates;

__________________


"..."

__________________

Thank You and keep the system working.
Linda
http://www.dhs.gov/

Hi,

@BC, I think you missed this one regarding the battery life:

"Between 0 and about 1,000, depending on time, temperature, length of exposures, usage of the LCD...."

but to be honest, takeing it out of the context, you could make this from everybodys posts. I think the reps are in a difficult situation and at least I do appreciate (some of) their answers here.
And it is definitly strange how themes develop to a different topic from answer to answer.

To get back to topic: If your batteries failed both at the same time you may be careful with your battery charger, it could be defective and ruin the new ones, too. Watch the first charging process from time to time to be sure that your charger is working correct and stops charging.

Cheers, Ulf

bcooter

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Leaf Aptus battery recharging woes
« Reply #38 on: January 08, 2010, 09:04:49 pm »

Quote from: UlfKrentz
Hi,

but to be honest, takeing it out of the context, you could make this from everybodys posts. I think the reps are in a difficult situation and at least I do appreciate (some of) their answers here.
And it is definitly strange how themes develop to a different topic from answer to answer.

Ulf

I 100% agree, anything out of context can be bent to look a certain way (especially my posts) and I meant this somewhat tongue in cheek, though . . . let's be realistic that when you have one Leaf dealer having to ask another Phase/Leaf dealer on a public forum if the products will be supported then there is an issue.

I know these are small companies and God I wish em' well, but I also know these are expensive cameras and before any of us write a new check we need more information and less responses that say tbd, maybe, as of now, when it ships etc.

Also to make myself clear I want these companies to succeed, but more than that I want these companies (both dealers and makers) to offer product that is more in line with what is happening in the real world.

My heart goes out for those people that bought into systems with promises that we're never met and now find themselves searching around for support and services to make some use of their investment.

The makers can't have it both ways.  You can't say bulletproof and in the next sentence mention value added warranties because the costs of repairs is high.

It's not just the camera industry, it's not just the professional photography business, today  all businesses across the globe  must be complete to have success.

BC
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