Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Issues with Long Exposures on D3s  (Read 5191 times)

Gulag

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 336
Issues with Long Exposures on D3s
« on: December 26, 2009, 07:17:39 pm »

I don't know whether this is just my copy. But, I found that D3s adds some vertical stripes on JPEG but not on RAW.  And,  the same problem is there even if I converted RAW to JPEG in Caputure NX2. Any ideas?

Please take a look at the area from upper left corner to upper right corner.





Thanks.

Michael
Logged
"Photography is our exorcism. Primitive society had its masks, bourgeois society its mirrors. We have our images."

— Jean Baudrillard

Panopeeper

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1805
Issues with Long Exposures on D3s
« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2009, 07:40:16 pm »

Quote from: mshi2008
I found that D3s adds some vertical stripes on JPEG but not on RAW.  And,  the same problem is there even if I converted RAW to JPEG in Caputure NX2.
I don't understand what you mean with "not on RAW".

Anyway, the banding I see looks very much like what some faulty Canon 5DMkII's and most 7D'a are creating; that is caused by the reading electronics.

Can you upload the raw file? For example yousendit.com; you don't need even the free registration with files under 25 MB. After uploading you receive a URL for the downloading, you can post that here, or send it to me in a personal message if you don't want to publish it.
Logged
Gabor

Gulag

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 336
Issues with Long Exposures on D3s
« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2009, 08:18:14 pm »

Quote from: Panopeeper
I don't understand what you mean with "not on RAW".

Anyway, the banding I see looks very much like what some faulty Canon 5DMkII's and most 7D'a are creating; that is caused by the reading electronics.

Can you upload the raw file? For example yousendit.com; you don't need even the free registration with files under 25 MB. After uploading you receive a URL for the downloading, you can post that here, or send it to me in a personal message if you don't want to publish it.

Thanks for your reply.

Here is the RAW file :  https://rcpt.yousendit.com/795879866/f6683d...84687bae49d05a9

Thanks.
Logged
"Photography is our exorcism. Primitive society had its masks, bourgeois society its mirrors. We have our images."

— Jean Baudrillard

Panopeeper

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1805
Issues with Long Exposures on D3s
« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2009, 09:13:17 pm »

Quote from: mshi2008
Here is the RAW file
There is a vertical banding with 12pixel repetition, i.e. the senser's readout has 12 channels (this is the highest I have seen, the other newer cameras have 8 channels). The banding is caused by the lack of "balancing" between the channels. The following capture shows pixels of the "blue" raw channel only:



This is not really strong; here is one from a faulty Canon 5D2, one of the green channels:

However, the banding appears in relatively well-exposed areas; the above sample patch is 6.95 EV under clipping, i.e. just at the end of the seventh stop of the dynamic range, that's nothing with ISO 200. I have low ISO shots only from one other D3S, and I don't see any such banding there.

The problem is, that ACR can not deal with this banding. Canon's own raw processor deals with it in the Canon files quite good, but the banding appears in ACR rendered files. Perhaps Nikon Capture X does eliminate the banding.

I suggest you to send the camera for repair, with your JPEG file as sample; you may want to send in this capture of the blue channels as well.
Logged
Gabor

Gulag

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 336
Issues with Long Exposures on D3s
« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2009, 09:35:09 pm »

Quote from: Panopeeper
There is a vertical banding with 12pixel repetition, i.e. the senser's readout has 12 channels (this is the highest I have seen, the other newer cameras have 8 channels). The banding is caused by the lack of "balancing" between the channels. The following capture shows pixels of the "blue" raw channel only:



This is not really strong; here is one from a faulty Canon 5D2, one of the green channels:

However, the banding appears in relatively well-exposed areas; the above sample patch is 6.95 EV under clipping, i.e. just at the end of the seventh stop of the dynamic range, that's nothing with ISO 200. I have low ISO shots only from one other D3S, and I don't see any such banding there.

The problem is, that ACR can not deal with this banding. Canon's own raw processor deals with it in the Canon files quite good, but the banding appears in ACR rendered files. Perhaps Nikon Capture X does eliminate the banding.

I suggest you to send the camera for repair, with your JPEG file as sample; you may want to send in this capture of the blue channels as well.

Thanks very much for your detailed explanation. In fact, I have contacted Nikon and also sent them both RAW and in-camera JPEGs. However, they say those banding are "normal" for them, which I find quite disturbing.  I haven't used ACR on these images yet. But Nikon Capture NX2 can not get rid of banding.  Since D3s is new, I don't know whether others have the banding issue that mine has for long exposures.  At this point, I try to think this is only for my copy.

Thank you.
Logged
"Photography is our exorcism. Primitive society had its masks, bourgeois society its mirrors. We have our images."

— Jean Baudrillard

Panopeeper

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1805
Issues with Long Exposures on D3s
« Reply #5 on: December 26, 2009, 09:50:03 pm »

Quote from: mshi2008
Since D3s is new, I don't know whether others have the banding issue that mine has for long exposures.  At this point, I try to think this is only for my copy
Imaging Resource have published their tests with quite a few raw files; download some of them and try to convert them with the same parameters as this one. The black patch of the color checker card in the MULTI000200 shot is in the same range of intensity as in your shot. The coffee mug in the SLI000200 shot is somewhat darker (still not really dark). None of these exhibit any banding.

Imaging Resource Nikon D3S Samples (the raw filenames are blue, for they are links).
Logged
Gabor

Gulag

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 336
Issues with Long Exposures on D3s
« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2009, 10:06:22 pm »

Quote from: Panopeeper
Imaging Resource have published their tests with quite a few raw files; download some of them and try to convert them with the same parameters as this one. The black patch of the color checker card in the MULTI000200 shot is in the same range of intensity as in your shot. The coffee mug in the SLI000200 shot is somewhat darker (still not really dark). None of these exhibit any banding.

Imaging Resource Nikon D3S Samples (the raw filenames are blue, for they are links).

Thanks again for the pointer.   The box came with a big dent on one side of its original box, and I instantly got a bad feeling but I kept my faith. After those troubling long exposures showed up on the screen, I started to contact Nikon and Amazon.com where I ordered it from.  My copy is definitely going back to Amazon.com.

Regards,

Michael
Logged
"Photography is our exorcism. Primitive society had its masks, bourgeois society its mirrors. We have our images."

— Jean Baudrillard

LKaven

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1060
Issues with Long Exposures on D3s
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2010, 07:42:00 am »

Quote from: mshi2008
Thanks very much for your detailed explanation. In fact, I have contacted Nikon and also sent them both RAW and in-camera JPEGs. However, they say those banding are "normal" for them, which I find quite disturbing.
I am uncomfortable that, these days, Nikon doesn't just make cameras, they also have a monopoly on "film" for their cameras.  I suffered from blooming artifacts on my original D3 at high ISO settings and pursued a solution with Nikon for nearly two years without success.  They don't want to hear about these things.  They will put their fingers in their ears while they sing and tell you your defect is just "normal behavior in extreme conditions".  Apparently "normal" is defined vacuously to mean just "whatever the camera does" and "extreme" to mean "whatever the camera doesn't do".  I am seriously considering filing suit for breach of warranty in my case.
Pages: [1]   Go Up