Suggestion to Michael

[pcunite]

Suggestion to Michael

Rename the "Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography" to simply "Larger than 35mm Format". This tells us in a much shorter and simpler way the types of discussions that will take place. Also use a light handed approach when 35mm formats are compared.

The term Medium format does not mean much any more with there being so many different sizes to this format. The Leica S2 and Hasselblad H3D-31 share so many of the same attributes in real world shooting with a p65+ back for example.

The 35mm format is one of the most widely used, understood, and heavily funded for new R&D formats ever. Thus anything larger is very unique and interesting. With fewer numbers in use these larger than 35 (LT35 formats) could safely be lumped together.

[bcooter]

Suggestion to Michael

Rename the "Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography" to simply "Larger than 35mm Format".

Since it's Michael's Forum he can do as he wishes, but it seems to me if you limit it down to "larger than" anything think of the professional conversation your going to miss,

The guy who shoots fashion with an M-9, the photographer that uses all formats during a project, the person that might happen to stick a contax 645 lens on a Canon, etc. etc.

Then you have to know that you limit 99.9% of every working professional photographer that has some dslr in their equipment kit, usually more than one.  I have two medium format backs but wouldn't dream of going out on any project without a dlsr for a lot of reasons, including file quality.

Does that mean the larger than 35mm police (usually the guys with the 3 generation old 22mpx backs) are going to pounce if someone writes, "when V5 software collapsed I had to pick up my 1ds3 to finish the project?".

Also keep in mind if you limit this forum it's pretty much going to be relegated to questions like  "when is Sinar going to offer a pc version of their software, or when can we expect Phase lenses?"

It's going to get pretty lonely here.

IMO

BC

[klane]

Since it's Michael's Forum he can do as he wishes, but it seems to me if you limit it down to "larger than" anything think of the professional conversation your going to miss,

The guy who shoots fashion with an M-9, the photographer that uses all formats during a project, the person that might happen to stick a contax 645 lens on a Canon, etc. etc.

Then you have to know that you limit 99.9% of every working professional photographer that has some dslr in their equipment kit, usually more than one.  I have two medium format backs but wouldn't dream of going out on any project without a dlsr for a lot of reasons, including file quality.

Does that mean the larger than 35mm police (usually the guys with the 3 generation old 22mpx backs) are going to pounce if someone writes, "when V5 software collapsed I had to pick up my 1ds3 to finish the project?".

Also keep in mind if you limit this forum it's pretty much going to be relegated to questions like  "when is Sinar going to offer a pc version of their software, or when can we expect Phase lenses?"

It's going to get pretty lonely here.

IMO

BC

I agree 100% -I also enjoy reading not only about different camera solutions others are using but also reviews/questions/problems with lighting equipment and grip. Id hate to see those discussions disappear.

[rainer_v]

i think many if not most pros will leave LL because its simply too boring for longer time visitings if this forumr will be reduced to only one part of the used equipment/ workflow and more so if cross-over-thoughts are banned immediately by some self named LL police guys, who only want to read about arca sinar phase hassy stuff because they feel some strange brand loyality for having spent some money in this stuff.

for me only the fact starts to make me tired that i am faced with this censor like discussions here in the last days.
i think its a pity that MR changed the name, because he was right as he wrote in his first reaction and i dont get why he changed this position.
but now its done and i cant see much future for this forum tomorrow. its a pity i.m.o.

[pcunite]

Just to clarify... I want to see 35mm discussions in the new group name I suggested. I think that talking about 35mm from MFD point of view is more interesting for all. However, I would not want APS-C, APS-H, 35mm, and MFD all in the same group all the time talking about the generalities of each. The traffic would be to high I think. Since Michael was so quick to change the name I am just suggesting a more sensible name instead of "Medium Format / blah / blah".

Michael, thanks for your patience while we all throw dirt up in the air spoiling your tea.

[David Eichler]

i think many if not most pros will leave LL because its simply too boring for longer time visitings if this forumr will be reduced to only one part of the used equipment/ workflow and more so if cross-over-thoughts are banned immediately by some self named LL police guys, who only want to read about arca sinar phase hassy stuff because they feel some strange brand loyality for having spent some money in this stuff.

for me only the fact starts to make me tired that i am faced with this censor like discussions here in the last days.
i think its a pity that MR changed the name, because he was right as he wrote in his first reaction and i dont get why he changed this position.
but now its done and i cant see much future for this forum tomorrow. its a pity i.m.o.

I am with Rainer on this. Comparing and contrasting formats is very useful for practical purposes.  Sure, different formats have their different equipment and aesthetics.  Larger format is always going to have the potential for more subtle tonal nuances, and the greater ability to hold up well in extreme enlargements, than a smaller format.  However, now that the resolution of small format digital has gotten so high, and given the greater versatility of small format and the large cost difference between small and medium format digital, I think it is perfectly appropriate and useful to discuss one format in relation to the other, especially when it becomes a matter of what a client really needs and is willing to pay for.

There will always be silly arguments and people with narrow points of view, no matter how much one may try to segregate the discussions. Furthermore, this sub-group has become a kind of mini-forum for discussing architectural photography, regardless of the format or specific camera equipment.  I would hate to see that go away because of those with a narrow point of view. Things were going pretty well. I suggest not messing with it.

[ziocan]

Suggestion to Michael

Rename the "Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography" to simply "Larger than 35mm Format". This tells us in a much shorter and simpler way the types of discussions that will take place. Also use a light handed approach when 35mm formats are compared.

The term Medium format does not mean much any more with there being so many different sizes to this format. The Leica S2 and Hasselblad H3D-31 share so many of the same attributes in real world shooting with a p65+ back for example.

The 35mm format is one of the most widely used, understood, and heavily funded for new R&D formats ever. Thus anything larger is very unique and interesting. With fewer numbers in use these larger than 35 (LT35 formats) could safely be lumped together.

I rather go back to work.

[yaya]

Since it's Michael's Forum he can do as he wishes, but it seems to me if you limit it down to "larger than" anything think of the professional conversation your going to miss,

The guy who shoots fashion with an M-9, the photographer that uses all formats during a project, the person that might happen to stick a contax 645 lens on a Canon, etc. etc.

Then you have to know that you limit 99.9% of every working professional photographer that has some dslr in their equipment kit, usually more than one.  I have two medium format backs but wouldn't dream of going out on any project without a dlsr for a lot of reasons, including file quality.

Does that mean the larger than 35mm police (usually the guys with the 3 generation old 22mpx backs) are going to pounce if someone writes, "when V5 software collapsed I had to pick up my 1ds3 to finish the project?".

Also keep in mind if you limit this forum it's pretty much going to be relegated to questions like  "when is Sinar going to offer a pc version of their software, or when can we expect Phase lenses?"

It's going to get pretty lonely here.

IMO

BC

I agree 100%,

What might help (and perhaps this is what bugs people mostly) is if someone starts a thread about some new MF product or an MF related subject, that the discussion stays on course for more than 2 posts and not diverts immediately into a 35mm comparison (and/ or the other way around).

For example if I am looking to buy a technical camera for my 4 yr old 22MP back with a couple of wide angle lenses to shoot architecture and I am asking about a certain lens, I would normally expect to get replies talking about Cambo, ALPA, Schneider, centre filters etc. and not be bombarded with "you should buy a 5DII with a couple of TS/E lenses" because it goes to 300,000 iso and shoots 148fps videos" type of replies.

This of course is true if the thread was about the new D3s...if I'm asking about a 85/f1.4 lens I don't necessarily want to be told that "a 90MP full frame 645 chip will give you a much better 3d bokeh because manual focus is much better than AF" or somesuch...it just makes the reading a bit more "effective" and purposeful for those who start the threads and often for other readers.

I don't see any reasonable way to "police" this, though, other maybe than just making ourselves aware of the fact that some people have a certain interest and respect their need for "staying on topic".

Happy holidays

Yair

[UlfKrentz]

I agree 100%,

What might help (and perhaps this is what bugs people mostly) is if someone starts a thread about some new MF product or an MF related subject, that the discussion stays on course for more than 2 posts and not diverts immediately into a 35mm comparison (and/ or the other way around).

For example if I am looking to buy a technical camera for my 4 yr old 22MP back with a couple of wide angle lenses to shoot architecture and I am asking about a certain lens, I would normally expect to get replies talking about Cambo, ALPA, Schneider, centre filters etc. and not be bombarded with "you should buy a 5DII with a couple of TS/E lenses" because it goes to 300,000 iso and shoots 148fps videos" type of replies.

This of course is true if the thread was about the new D3s...if I'm asking about a 85/f1.4 lens I don't necessarily want to be told that "a 90MP full frame 645 chip will give you a much better 3d bokeh because manual focus is much better than AF" or somesuch...it just makes the reading a bit more "effective" and purposeful for those who start the threads and often for other readers.

I don't see any reasonable way to "police" this, though, other maybe than just making ourselves aware of the fact that some people have a certain interest and respect their need for "staying on topic".

Happy holidays

Yair

+1

[ynp]

I agree 100%,

What might help (and perhaps this is what bugs people mostly) is if someone starts a thread about some new MF product or an MF related subject, that the discussion stays on course for more than 2 posts and not diverts immediately into a 35mm comparison (and/ or the other way around).

For example if I am looking to buy a technical camera for my 4 yr old 22MP back with a couple of wide angle lenses to shoot architecture and I am asking about a certain lens, I would normally expect to get replies talking about Cambo, ALPA, Schneider, centre filters etc. and not be bombarded with "you should buy a 5DII with a couple of TS/E lenses" because it goes to 300,000 iso and shoots 148fps videos" type of replies.

This of course is true if the thread was about the new D3s...if I'm asking about a 85/f1.4 lens I don't necessarily want to be told that "a 90MP full frame 645 chip will give you a much better 3d bokeh because manual focus is much better than AF" or somesuch...it just makes the reading a bit more "effective" and purposeful for those who start the threads and often for other readers.

I don't see any reasonable way to "police" this, though, other maybe than just making ourselves aware of the fact that some people have a certain interest and respect their need for "staying on topic".

Happy holidays

Yair

+2

[tho_mas]

+2

+54 ( http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....showtopic=40299 )

[michael]

Let's move on.

Michael