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Author Topic: Canon i9900/i9950 upgrade to Epson 3800/3880  (Read 6064 times)

feppe

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Canon i9900/i9950 upgrade to Epson 3800/3880
« on: December 19, 2009, 10:46:40 pm »

I'm considering upgrading my Canon i9950 printer to the Epson 3800/3880. Here's a quick analysis on the ink cost which I whipped, might be interesting for some.

According to the Epson 3800 print cost article on LL it spends around 0.012ml of ink per square inch. The printer comes with 720ml of ink, producing 60,000 square inches of coverage (9 cartridges x 80ml / 0.012).

According to this analysis the i9900 (US model of i9950) runs at 0.009ml per square inch. The 60k square inches the Epson covers with the starter ink set equals 540ml of ink if printed with the i9900. Canon ink runs at 0.67 EUR per ml (10 EUR per 15ml cartridge), which yields 362 EUR worth of "Canon-equivalent" ink in the Epson printer - if that makes sense (0.009 x 60,000 x 0.67). In other words, it would cost 362 EUR in Canon ink to make the prints the starter cartridges in the 3800 will print.

This all means that cost upgrading to the 3800 should be considered to cost 362 EUR less, or roughly a quarter of the price of the printer itself.

The surprising part to me was that the much larger Epson cartridges are more expensive per ml, and per square inch - this goes against conventional wisdom. Epson ink runs at around 0,69 EUR per ml (55 / 80) against Canon's 0.67 EUR, so the difference in per square inch costs between the Epson and Canon is 0.0023 EUR in Canon's favor (0.69 x 0.012 - 0.67 x 0.009), or 57 cents per 13x19 print.

Of course the Epson has a wider carriage, produces much higher quality results, and has archival quality pigment inks.

haefnerphoto

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Canon i9900/i9950 upgrade to Epson 3800/3880
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2009, 09:14:36 pm »

Quote from: feppe
I'm considering upgrading my Canon i9950 printer to the Epson 3800/3880. Here's a quick analysis on the ink cost which I whipped, might be interesting for some.

According to the Epson 3800 print cost article on LL it spends around 0.012ml of ink per square inch. The printer comes with 720ml of ink, producing 60,000 square inches of coverage (9 cartridges x 80ml / 0.012).

According to this analysis the i9900 (US model of i9950) runs at 0.009ml per square inch. The 60k square inches the Epson covers with the starter ink set equals 540ml of ink if printed with the i9900. Canon ink runs at 0.67 EUR per ml (10 EUR per 15ml cartridge), which yields 362 EUR worth of "Canon-equivalent" ink in the Epson printer - if that makes sense (0.009 x 60,000 x 0.67). In other words, it would cost 362 EUR in Canon ink to make the prints the starter cartridges in the 3800 will print.

This all means that cost upgrading to the 3800 should be considered to cost 362 EUR less, or roughly a quarter of the price of the printer itself.

The surprising part to me was that the much larger Epson cartridges are more expensive per ml, and per square inch - this goes against conventional wisdom. Epson ink runs at around 0,69 EUR per ml (55 / 80) against Canon's 0.67 EUR, so the difference in per square inch costs between the Epson and Canon is 0.0023 EUR in Canon's favor (0.69 x 0.012 - 0.67 x 0.009), or 57 cents per 13x19 print.

Of course the Epson has a wider carriage, produces much higher quality results, and has archival quality pigment inks.


Not to mention the inconvenience of changing the cartridges constantly and the metamerism.  Jim
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howseth

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Canon i9900/i9950 upgrade to Epson 3800/3880
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2009, 09:39:44 pm »

"Of course the Epson has a wider carriage, produces much higher quality results, and has archival quality pigment inks."

Well? So, What are your priorities? the above reasons - or the higher cost of the ink? (I have neither printer - I have an HP Printer....)

Howard
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Pete Berry

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Canon i9900/i9950 upgrade to Epson 3800/3880
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2009, 12:39:17 am »

Quote from: feppe
Of course the Epson has a wider carriage, produces much higher quality results, and has archival quality pigment inks.


I would question the assumed "much higher quality results". Having had the breakthrough i9900 for several years, and for the past almost three years, a Canon archival pigment iPF5000, the i9900 prints are even more stunning in comparison - the main difference being the depth of the blacks, particularly on matte paper in side-by-side viewing - with Ilford Smooth Fine Art being the best I used. Simply black hole blacks, yet great shadow detail. And in the end, in color or B&W, it's the blacks that make the print really live. In my photography club, have not seen anything to equal it in pigment prints from Epson, HP or Canon.

I'm resurrecting the 9900 soon as my studio space has doubled lately, to see if those printed when I had no calibrated monitor  and used only printer driver control can be improved on today. Somehow, I doubt it.

Pete
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Gemmtech

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Canon i9900/i9950 upgrade to Epson 3800/3880
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2009, 12:51:14 am »

I own the i9100 I9900 and the Epson dye printers as well 1280 etc.  You can't duplicate the blacks the dye inkjets can produce with ANY pigment based printer.  However, IMHO the skin tones are better with the latest and greatest Epson printers.  I've been doing a lot of comparison prints between the Epson 1280 and the Epson 3880 and it's amazing how good the 1280 prints are, however I wouldn't sell one unless it was lacquered and behind glass.  On gloss paper, it's no contest, the dye based printers are better in every aspect.
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feppe

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Canon i9900/i9950 upgrade to Epson 3800/3880
« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2009, 11:50:18 am »

I was under the impression that pigment-based printers are better since that's all what the big boys talk about here - it seems like that's not the case at all. Thanks, you just saved me quite a bit of money, and I'll continue printing archival prints at the local art store.

Gemmtech

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Canon i9900/i9950 upgrade to Epson 3800/3880
« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2009, 03:10:32 pm »

Quote from: feppe
I was under the impression that pigment-based printers are better since that's all what the big boys talk about here - it seems like that's not the case at all. Thanks, you just saved me quite a bit of money, and I'll continue printing archival prints at the local art store.


If you are selling inkjet prints then you probably have to use pigment or dye based prints that are coated.  If your needs are deep deep blacks and very punchy colors on high gloss papers, then I would only use a dye based printer and either Canon or Epson are great.  Unless I am doing something terribly wrong I've come to the conclusion that the latest and greatest pigment based printers can't equal the blacks of the dyes.  I've asked for opinions from others but it seems most have thrown their dye printers away.  A lot of the people on this forum are professionals and they are selling prints, so I understand.
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fortisi876

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Canon i9900/i9950 upgrade to Epson 3800/3880
« Reply #7 on: December 25, 2009, 10:08:33 am »

I actually own both of these printers, the i9900 was my primary printer until I found a smoking deal on the 3800, with the couple of test prints Ive done there's no denying that on the same 'gloss' paper Ive always used with the i9900, the i9900 blows away the 3800. The i9900 prints look wet compared to the 3800, now with that said, these same test prints have a B&W section that look terrible, on the 3800 much better. I'm not an expert by any stretch of the imagination but it would seem as if the dye inks were made for high gloss type papers and they soak right into them where the pigment inks don't, I dunno.

What I need to do is find various types of papers and see what works best with the 3800, I'm really curious to see if there is a better suited high gloss paper that works much better with the 3800 so I could really compare it to the i9900 prints.

Regarding B&W prints, imho, the 3800 will smoke the i9900 on just about every type of paper, mostly due to the color casts the i9900 is known for.

I'm definitely going to try more tests over time, I especially want to compare prints on some pearl and/or matte paper, from what Ive been reading there's no way the i9900 will compare. Ive printed on some a b&w and color print on some PhotoRag 308 on the 3800, the results were amazing, I'm too new to these kind of papers to know if I can do a sample print on the i9900 but if they accept dye inks I'm going to have to give it a try just to see how they rate to one another.

So, in my opinion, don't rush the purchase of a 3800/3880 unless you find a great deal for a used one.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2009, 10:40:18 am by fortisi876 »
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feppe

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Canon i9900/i9950 upgrade to Epson 3800/3880
« Reply #8 on: December 25, 2009, 02:55:50 pm »

I got rid of i9900 color casts by buying a custom profile - black and white is still bluish even with them, though. Made a huge difference in color accuracy. Red River Paper also provides profiles for their papers and most popular printers.
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