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Author Topic: Major flaw with Epson Stylus Pro 9900 causes banding in BLACK only  (Read 92033 times)

Picture Salon

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Major flaw with Epson Stylus Pro 9900 causes banding in BLACK only
« Reply #60 on: February 23, 2010, 11:31:56 am »

Quote from: stillekracht
Major flaw with Epson Stylus Pro 9900 causes banding in BLACK only

First of all, apologies for my bad English.
I am from behind the dikes, you see.

Problem:
Clear banding (parallel with headmovement) in black only.
This is not caused by a headstrike or deflected nozzles.
As you can see: The banding is not nozzle related.
Difficult to believe this is software related since the banding is in black only (and in gray with photoblack).
It is not inktube related because the problem is the same with Mat and Photoblack.
When it is inkpressure related one would expect it to be visible also in the colors.

Epson Repair Service guys:
The Epson Repair guys refuse to come and have a look at the machine and problem.
They told me: We can not fix it and we only get paid by Epson if we fix a problem.
They told me: We know of another E9900 with the same problem.
The problem was not solved by replacing the head...

For:
Hardware - Software settings / images / updates / problem description / What did I do so far?
Go to:  
http://members.upc.nl/reppel/E9900.html

Question:
Any of you have experience with this issue? And solved it?
Or am I doing something wrong.....

Thanks,
Hartelijke Groet van Matthijs Reppel

Hi There:

We have experienced what sounds like a similar problem but on our 11880. Epson sent a technician on three separate occasions, replaced the print head twice, and still no solution. We were so unhappy with the amount of time it took and with no positive results that we are in the process of getting a refund. I would be interested to see if you would have the same problem that we do but with cyan not laying down correctly. I can send you the file if you like.

Epson does read these forums and will probably be upset with me yet again. I have already heard form the dealer who sold me the printer. He got some angry calls from them. But my opinion is that they have not done enough. They simply wanted to replace the printer. But I couldn't trust that the new one didn't have the same problem. They are apparently very inexperienced in dealing with these printer issues.
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NickOsborne

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Major flaw with Epson Stylus Pro 9900 causes banding in BLACK only
« Reply #61 on: March 05, 2010, 05:06:14 am »

As my decision has not be made  on Epson, HP or Canon for my purchase of a  44" printer, I have been following this thread with interest.

Has there been an update on your 9900? Has it been replaced or repaired successfully?, Does it all work OK?.... Lots of questions sorry... it's just  the most interesting post with regards a major purchase for me.

Thanks for your candid information.

Nick Osborne

Wayne Fox

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Major flaw with Epson Stylus Pro 9900 causes banding in BLACK only
« Reply #62 on: March 05, 2010, 03:12:04 pm »

Quote from: Picture Salon
But I couldn't trust that the new one didn't have the same problem.


Very doubtful.  I've never seen a single post about an 11880 with a problem like this, am running 2 of them myself and a good friend has sold several (I help him with support).  One of the better printers Epson has made, including low clogging, speed and quality.

Replacing the printer seems appropriate - no company has never not had to do this and you happen to be the unlucky one.  Most l likely it isn't even their fault, but resulted in some hidden damage during shipping or a defective part from a supplier.  Apparently you didn't like that option, so I'm guessing some heated discussions have ensued.  One of those no one wins situations.

Agreed it is a pain for the user when this happens, since this type of thing is very hard to isolate so it often requires repeated trips and service ... about all you can do is try a shotgun solution and start replacing stuff.  Very similar to my first 7900 which they eventually decided to replace, and the new one has been stellar.  I'll be trading up to a 9900 before long.
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stillekracht

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Major flaw with Epson Stylus Pro 9900 causes banding in BLACK only
« Reply #63 on: March 06, 2010, 05:30:34 am »

Hi Nick,

This 9900 has not been replaced or repaired. Yet...

This week the tech replaced the NVRAM. To no avail.
Four weeks ago they send a printproof to Epson France.
I wonder what Epson France could analyse with a printproof only...

The tech used his laptop to run the testfile also.
The same problem.

An other photographer (the son of a famous Dutch photographer)
has exactly the same problem on his 9900.

Two week ago I asked Epson for compensation for
lost ink and paper. No answer. Yet...

I talked to my dealer.
They were not amused.
They are waiting for my signal to come into action.
First I am going to talk to Epson on a professional imaging fair next week.

Problem, video and updates on: This webpage

Hartelijke Groet van Matthijs

Quote from: NickOsborne
Has there been an update on your 9900? Has it been replaced or repaired successfully?

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stillekracht

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Major flaw with Epson Stylus Pro 9900 causes banding in BLACK only
« Reply #64 on: March 09, 2010, 08:19:51 am »

Hi again,

An update on this issue.
The problem is not solved.

Yesterday I visited a professional photography trade fair
here in the Netherlands.
Epson had - ofcourse - a stand on this fair.
I was able to run my testfile on a 9900 at their stand.
Surprise: a comparable issue like on my 9900.
Look at the results on this webpage:
Not so obvious as on my 9900 testresult
but still very visible as a flaw.

I am going to escalate this issue.
I spoke to my dealer and they are becomming angry.
I spoke to a dealer of printsupply and he told me:
Oh, I have seen this already before..This is a well known issue.
Sometimes it is solved by replacing the printhead twice...

Hartelijke Groet van Matthijs.
The webpage about this issue

Quote from: stillekracht
Major flaw with Epson Stylus Pro 9900 causes banding in BLACK only
Problem:
Clear banding (parallel with headmovement) in black only.
This is not caused by a headstrike or deflected nozzles.
As you can see: The banding is not nozzle related.
Difficult to believe this is software related since the banding is in black only (and in gray with photoblack).
It is not inktube related because the problem is the same with Mat and Photoblack.
When it is inkpressure related one would expect it to be visible also in the colors.
For: Hardware - Software settings / images / updates / problem description / What did I do so far?
Go to:  http://members.upc.nl/reppel/E9900.html
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Farmer

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Major flaw with Epson Stylus Pro 9900 causes banding in BLACK only
« Reply #65 on: March 09, 2010, 03:34:08 pm »

How would replacing the print head "twice" help, unless the first replacement was faulty?

Looking at your sample scan from the show - the only "issue" appears to be where you have stopped the printer from completing the print.  The solid black area appears fine.  I think you're seeing a problem where none exists in that example.
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Phil Brown

stillekracht

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Major flaw with Epson Stylus Pro 9900 causes banding in BLACK only
« Reply #66 on: March 10, 2010, 04:09:34 am »

Yes indeed Phil,
But replacing the print head twice did the job, how ridiculous it may sound.
Nobody really understands. Unless this issue is printhead related.

Of course the output may be acceptable.
The point is: The black ink is lay down in a particular way.
Not at all comparable to the gray square.
On my 9900 the back ink is lay down in such a particular way... the output is affected.

On both machines the issue is the same.
Mine is worse and effecting the output.
That's the only difference.

This is of some importance in troubleshooting this problem.

Hartelijke groet van Matthijs.

Quote from: Farmer
How would replacing the print head "twice" help, unless the first replacement was faulty?
Looking at your sample scan from the show - the only "issue" appears to be where you have stopped the printer from completing the print.  The solid black area appears fine.  I think you're seeing a problem where none exists in that example.
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Farmer

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Major flaw with Epson Stylus Pro 9900 causes banding in BLACK only
« Reply #67 on: March 10, 2010, 06:30:59 am »

Quote from: stillekracht
Of course the output may be acceptable.
The point is: The black ink is lay down in a particular way.
Not at all comparable to the gray square.
On my 9900 the back ink is lay down in such a particular way... the output is affected.

On both machines the issue is the same.
Mine is worse and effecting the output.
That's the only difference.

This is of some importance in troubleshooting this problem.

Maybe, maybe not.  It's worth looking at, but if the output is acceptable and as expected on one machine but not another, and the "wave" pattern you're seeing from the multipass process is the same, it suggests to me some other issue.

I think you may be too focussed on what you think is wrong/unusual/different in that pattern and look at more "traditional" fault causes for your issue.  

Personally, I would isolate the source data (ie try a different computer, change cables/connection type), change location (to ensure there's no external factors), change software and reinstall latest drivers, test strictly on Epson media with default driver settings for that media, change black ink cartridge, look for anything that might affect paper feed physically, test at all output resolutions with both bi-di and uni-di, print only completed prints (don't stop them part way through - I think it's distracting you from finding the real cause), ensure all calibrations (including colorimetric) are completed by an Epson technician, latest firmware.

I know you've done a lot of testing already, but again you seem focussed on an issue that isn't bringing you any results.  So move past that, return to more traditional troubleshooting techniques and them investigate the results.

Whatever you might think, there's ample evidence that this isn't a widespread problem.  After the initial tests that I did, I tried other media and still can not replicate the problem, for example.

Regarding replacing the printhead twice, it simply suggests to me either the first replacement head was faulty or the technician didn't perform the repair and calibration to spec as opposed to there being some actual benefit to replacing the head twice.  If replacing a head becomes an option and doesn't work, I'd look at the mainboard and the power supply and ensure all the ribbon cable connections are individually checked as well as all the ink lines from cartridge to head (particularly seals).
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Phil Brown

stillekracht

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Major flaw with Epson Stylus Pro 9900 causes banding in BLACK only
« Reply #68 on: March 10, 2010, 07:15:49 am »

Quote from: Farmer
Personally, I would isolate the source data (ie try a different computer, change cables/connection type), change location (to ensure there's no external factors), change software and reinstall latest drivers, test strictly on Epson media with default driver settings for that media, change black ink cartridge, look for anything that might affect paper feed physically, test at all output resolutions with both bi-di and uni-di, print only completed prints (don't stop them part way through - I think it's distracting you from finding the real cause), ensure all calibrations (including colorimetric) are completed by an Epson technician, latest firmware.
I did and I did and I did. All of them.
This machine has been showing the same problem printing from 4 different PC's. Three different connections. Different software. etc.

Quote from: Farmer
print only completed prints (don't stop them part way through - I think it's distracting you from finding the real cause).
Of course this is what I did. At that point I noticed a banding which was not your typical nozzle issue. At that point I started looking at the printingprocess it self. I have been working with epson large formats for more then 10 years. I know about the regular issues. This was different.


Quote from: Farmer
I know you've done a lot of testing already, but again you seem focussed on an issue that isn't bringing you any results.  So move past that, return to more traditional troubleshooting techniques and them investigate the results.
I certainly would not know what traditional troubleshooting I did not do yet.
Epson tech (he is their top tech previously working at Epson HQ) has no troubleshooting techniques left also.
The only thing left seems to be replacing stuff. To no avail.

Quote from: Farmer
If replacing a head becomes an option and doesn't work, I'd look at the mainboard and the power supply and ensure all the ribbon cable connections are individually checked as well as all the ink lines from cartridge to head (particularly seals).
Exactly what I proposed to Epson last week: Change the mainboard. The tech is waiting on approval from Epson HQ.

Hartelijke Groet van Matthijs



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Farmer

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Major flaw with Epson Stylus Pro 9900 causes banding in BLACK only
« Reply #69 on: March 10, 2010, 02:18:42 pm »

Quote from: stillekracht
Exactly what I proposed to Epson last week: Change the mainboard. The tech is waiting on approval from Epson HQ.

Normally, this would involve backing up the NVRAM and then loading it into the new mainboard.  It might be worth discussing with them the possibility of not doing this, and having it all calibrated from scratch.
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Phil Brown

stillekracht

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Major flaw with Epson Stylus Pro 9900 causes banding in BLACK only
« Reply #70 on: March 11, 2010, 02:58:49 am »

Quote from: Farmer
Normally, this would involve backing up the NVRAM and then loading it into the new mainboard.  It might be worth discussing with them the possibility of not doing this, and having it all calibrated from scratch.
Yes indeed,
actually they suggested this already.
According to this advice.

Hartelijke groet van Matthijs.
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Roscolo

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Major flaw with Epson Stylus Pro 9900 causes banding in BLACK only
« Reply #71 on: March 11, 2010, 11:50:21 am »



How long have you had this printer and it has been useless? Since December? And now it is March and Epson's still jerking you around? How are you getting any printing done? Any way the dealer can just give you your money back, or give you credit for what you paid plus maybe some extra for all the wasted supplies and time, and put that towards another printer? Good luck.

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deanwork

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Major flaw with Epson Stylus Pro 9900 causes banding in BLACK only
« Reply #72 on: March 11, 2010, 06:18:52 pm »


Replace Epson.




Quote from: Roscolo
How long have you had this printer and it has been useless? Since December? And now it is March and Epson's still jerking you around? How are you getting any printing done? Any way the dealer can just give you your money back, or give you credit for what you paid plus maybe some extra for all the wasted supplies and time, and put that towards another printer? Good luck.
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Ernst Dinkla

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Major flaw with Epson Stylus Pro 9900 causes banding in BLACK only
« Reply #73 on: March 12, 2010, 02:55:58 am »

Quote from: Roscolo
How long have you had this printer and it has been useless? Since December? And now it is March and Epson's still jerking you around? How are you getting any printing done? Any way the dealer can just give you your money back, or give you credit for what you paid plus maybe some extra for all the wasted supplies and time, and put that towards another printer? Good luck.

He is in the The Netherlands. Getting your money back is the last thing they do. Class actions do not exist here. EU rules didn't change that. It is only when you can get on Dutch TV in a consumer complaint program that they act. Writing endless messages on lists like LL and the Epson Wide Format list doesn't alert Epson in The Netherlands. Recall the Orange Plague of Epson dyes, compensation was given to US customers, nothing changed or happened in the EU, not a word of information from Epson in the EU on that issue. There's a myth in the US that consumers are protected in the EU.


met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla

Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/
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hsmeets

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Major flaw with Epson Stylus Pro 9900 causes banding in BLACK only
« Reply #74 on: March 12, 2010, 05:33:58 am »

Quote from: Ernst Dinkla
He is in the The Netherlands. Getting your money back is the last thing they do. Class actions do not exist here. EU rules didn't change that. It is only when you can get on Dutch TV in a consumer complaint program that they act. Writing endless messages on lists like LL and the Epson Wide Format list doesn't alert Epson in The Netherlands. Recall the Orange Plague of Epson dyes, compensation was given to US customers, nothing changed or happened in the EU, not a word of information from Epson in the EU on that issue. There's a myth in the US that consumers are protected in the EU.


met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla

Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/

Yup, it's tough here in NL, the sales agreement most likely says that Epson cannot be held liable for loss of income due to use of their products...
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Huib

VitOne

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Re: Major flaw with Epson Stylus Pro 9900 causes banding in BLACK only
« Reply #75 on: December 02, 2010, 04:08:54 am »

Hi, I would like to know if you have any news about this problem with the X900 series.
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Doombrain

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Re: Major flaw with Epson Stylus Pro 9900 causes banding in BLACK only
« Reply #76 on: December 02, 2010, 05:08:34 am »

To me it looks like a VSD issue. Replacing the head can help but i would be looking at earthling/power supplies problems.

edit: looking at the latest pic i'd agree with Farmer. you can't stop the printer and just look at the MW screening process and say there's the problem.

where's your test file, i'll try it on my 9900.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2010, 05:33:03 am by Doombrain »
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Martin Kristiansen

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Re: Major flaw with Epson Stylus Pro 9900 causes banding in BLACK only
« Reply #77 on: December 02, 2010, 05:30:39 am »

This thread has me quite worried.

I recently made 2 prints 140 by 120 cm on my 11880 on Hahnemuhle ultrasmooth and saw the banding issue in the blacks. Never seen it before. I thought it was paper related since I had a very odd mottling in the blacks on this paper before on A2 sheets. Made the same prints on Epson Hot Press Bright and the mottling was no where to be seen. Hahnemuhle replaced the paper on that occasion and admitted the problem was theirs. Thing is the banding on the roll is parallel lines quite unlike the mottling that I got on the sheets.

I am running the 11880 with an IP RIP. The machine is 18 months old and has been a pleasure to work with. Hope this is not the beginning of problems. My plan was to avoid the ultrasmooth in future.

Time for some tests I guess. Problem is testing is both time consuming and expensive.
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Wayne Fox

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Re: Major flaw with Epson Stylus Pro 9900 causes banding in BLACK only
« Reply #78 on: December 03, 2010, 01:59:34 pm »

This thread has me quite worried.

I recently made 2 prints 140 by 120 cm on my 11880 on Hahnemuhle ultrasmooth and saw the banding issue in the blacks. Never seen it before. I thought it was paper related since I had a very odd mottling in the blacks on this paper before on A2 sheets. Made the same prints on Epson Hot Press Bright and the mottling was no where to be seen. Hahnemuhle replaced the paper on that occasion and admitted the problem was theirs. Thing is the banding on the roll is parallel lines quite unlike the mottling that I got on the sheets.

I am running the 11880 with an IP RIP. The machine is 18 months old and has been a pleasure to work with. Hope this is not the beginning of problems. My plan was to avoid the ultrasmooth in future.

Time for some tests I guess. Problem is testing is both time consuming and expensive.
Are you getting banding on Hahnemuhle but not the Epson or is that the mottling issue fixed by new paper from Hahnemuhle and really not related to the actual problem your having?

Have  your printed using the Epson drivers?  This could easily be a problem related to the settings in the RIP.

This thread was about a suspected defect in 79/9900 printers, your problem really doesn't sound like a printer problem ... I wouldn't suspect the 11880 as the issue.  Might have been better as a new thread rather than tacked onto this old one.
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deanwork

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Re: Major flaw with Epson Stylus Pro 9900 causes banding in BLACK only
« Reply #79 on: December 03, 2010, 02:15:21 pm »

The ink pressure problems are definitely going on with the 9900 machines with a lot of folks. There are also defective carts out there that have contributed to that confusion. For the life of me I can't imagine why Epson wouldn't replace the black cart before running around installing and reinstalling new heads. This is not new though. There have been a lot of reports with the same banding and dropping of nozzles on the very similarly designed 11880 pressurized ink cart machines. My friend had Epson over there constantly trying to resolve dropped cyan and black nozzles. The output has been spectacular, but lots of problems. Some people have no problems with the 9900 printers at all but have had issues with bad carts, I do know that.  Other people have flawless results with these same printers. You see very little complaints about the 7900 that has the same system and awesome resolution. Go figure. Stay in warranty.
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