Major flaw with Epson Stylus Pro 9900 causes banding in BLACK only

[stillekracht]

I don't know about you guys but if I had a major problem that lasted even  3 or 4 weeks with no resolution I'd ask them to come pick the piece of junk up and refund the money, much less 2 months. Sounds like you have been more than patient with them. john

Well, I am hesitant about asking a refund because of this:

[!--quoteo(post=345507:date=:name=Picture Salon' and private post date='Feb 7 2010, 09:08 PM)--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE (Picture Salon' and private post date='Feb 7 2010, 09:08 PM) [a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=345507\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]We are trying to get Epson to give us a full refund and to pick up the printer but they are only giving us 75% of what we paid for it (based upon a 12 month amortization which is ridiculous) and making us pack it up for return or they will have to chage us an extra $1000 to do so![/quote]

Hartelijke groet van Matthijs

[JasonHopkins]

You certainly shouldn't have banding issues in the back channel like that regardless of any media type setting or bad profle. This is making me wonder if it can  ever be fixed correctly. That along with all the ink waste.

john

EXACTLY

I have just ordered Epson media so I can do testing on it - 260gsm Premium Luster and 505gsm Velvet Fine Art.

[bossanova808]

It sounds to me more like a paper setting mismatch.

...etc

As I said above, that can be very useful.  I'd highly recommend some experimentation (though only after testing some Epson papers to baseline to ensure the printer itself doesn't have a problem).

Hi Phil

Bit busy but in short ALL of that and a whole lot more has been tried - including the paper feed thing (read the beginning of this thread and the stillekracht page).  This is not something easy that can be 'settings'-ed away in a jiffy.  And not something that occurred with our previous 7800 or 9800.  Or indeed with the ones before that.  Lots and lots of experience to draw on here, so take my word for it this isn't your run of the mill issue.

Even the paper feed thing has been tried, but not so extensively as it changes the size of the final prints which is perhaps just as big a problem as the black issues.

My first plan is to get them to sort out the cyan thing, then see where we are and confirm the issue also on Epson media and take it from there.

[Farmer]

Hi Phil

Bit busy but in short ALL of that and a whole lot more has been tried - including the paper feed thing (read the beginning of this thread and the stillekracht page).  This is not something easy that can be 'settings'-ed away in a jiffy.  And not something that occurred with our previous 7800 or 9800.  Or indeed with the ones before that.  Lots and lots of experience to draw on here, so take my word for it this isn't your run of the mill issue.

Even the paper feed thing has been tried, but not so extensively as it changes the size of the final prints which is perhaps just as big a problem as the black issues.

My first plan is to get them to sort out the cyan thing, then see where we are and confirm the issue also on Epson media and take it from there.

For the cyan issue, I'd be looking at having the ink system replaced.  As for the rest, until it's confirmed on Epson media and matching driver settings, I don't think you'll be able to nail it down unfortunately.

[Wayne Fox]

For the cyan issue, I'd be looking at having the ink system replaced.  As for the rest, until it's confirmed on Epson media and matching driver settings, I don't think you'll be able to nail it down unfortunately.

When I called Epson USA,  the entire cyan channel dropping appeared to be a known issue. The shipped the parts air, tech called and scheduled for 1 day later.  I wasn't there when the repair was done, so I don't know how long it took to actually repair, but since that time my nozzle failures have dropped to almost nothing.  I think I've had to do one clean in the last 4 weeks --- for 3 missing nozzles in 1 color.  Probably wouldn't have been detectable on a print.

[stillekracht]

I have just ordered Epson media so I can do testing on it - 260gsm Premium Luster and 505gsm Velvet Fine Art.

Hi Jason,
I am interested in your results.

Lots of talking on this forum about using the paperfeet adjustment settings to overcome this problem.
On fineartpapers the paperfeet adjustment should be at +30 (!)

I printed a testfile according to these paperfeetadjustment settings.
While this might be OK for some.. it is not for me.
It is a workaround. A poor one.
As I already stated on this page : print @ 1440 x 2880 and there is (almost) no problem visible in the output.
Also a workaround.  
At any paperfeet adjustment setting there is still this
wave like pattern (new pic) visible during the printing proces.
This is surely not how a PRO machine should be printing.
Even my old 7600 is printing black better compared with this 9900.

99% of the work I do is on mat and fine artpapers. These prints have a
lot of solid black. This black should be velvet. 100% velvet. Perfect
velvet. They are not. At all. Not even, when you look closely, at any
paperfeet adjustment setting or at 1440 x 2880 printing.

Hartelijke Groet van Matthijs.

[dgberg]

I am on a Mac so my choices are 1440 or 2880. I consider the other lower settings for documents only. Are you using these lower quality settings when you print your photos? I have been following this thread as I have a 7900 and 9900 but have no problems. I am interested in seeing what your printer does with these 1440 or 2880 settings on a photograph with lots of black. Can you upload one or have you done that already?
I am really hoping Epson can find a fix for you soon.

[Doombrain]

You certainly shouldn't have banding issues in the back channel like that regardless of any media type setting or bad profle.

 

[stillekracht]

Hi Dan,

When you print on Epson Utra Smooth Fine Art the driver gives you three possible quality settings.
720x1440 / 1440x1440 and 1440x2880. (Uni or Bi directional and microwave.)
On my old 7600 I was perfectly happy with the black on Fine Art papers printing 720x720. unidirectional. Microwave off.
Most operators agree that printing on fine art papers using 1440x2880 is ridiculous.
As I stated on this page [http://members.upc.nl/reppel/E9900.html]: Even with deflected nozzles you will get an acceptable output @ 1440x2880.
I printed with all quality settings. Only 1440x2880 gives an acceptable output. And it is the workarround for this moment.
If you like to see what happens during printing process look at this video:
[http://members.upc.nl/reppel/E9900.html#video]
Also on that page:  scanned output making the problem apparent.

Hartelijke Groet van Matthijs.

I am on a Mac so my choices are 1440 or 2880. I consider the other lower settings for documents only. Are you using these lower quality settings when you print your photos? I have been following this thread as I have a 7900 and 9900 but have no problems. I am interested in seeing what your printer does with these 1440 or 2880 settings on a photograph with lots of black. Can you upload one or have you done that already?
I am really hoping Epson can find a fix for you soon.

[dgberg]

I saw the video several times. I would really like to see how a picture with a fair amount of black comes out at 1440.  I really do think something is wrong it just seems to be quite baffling. I have both of Epsons new printers and have 0 desire to do a test print to see if my printer will duplicate this. At 1440 and 2880 printing photographs the output is absolutuly  perfect. I still digress back to 720 as a document print setting but as you say you have been using it in the past with no problems.
If the printer shows any of these effects at 1440 or higher I would then jump down Epsons throat believe me I'm on your side.

[stillekracht]

I would really like to see how a picture with a fair amount of black comes out at 1440.

Hi Dan,
@1440 banding is visible in black.
Cannot scan the result... scanner...jpeg...internet...possible lack of displaycolorcalibration at the recieving end will destroy the subtle information.
So take a plane and I will show you the print and... Holland also ;-)

I have both of Epsons new printers and have 0 desire to do a test print to see if my printer will duplicate this.

I understand.... I would be happy though when 9900 users would try to duplicate it....

If the printer shows any of these effects at 1440 or higher I would then jump down Epsons throat believe me I'm on your side

I am trying to do my best not to get angry...
This tech is a very nice guy and he is as baffled as I am.
Epson Holland has no throat... that must be the reason why I do not hear from them at all....

Hartelijke Groet van Matthijs

[Lorenz]

Hi there,

seems that I'm having exactely the same problem with just one little (but may be relevant) difference...

We use a RIP (Colorproof XF 4.1) and notice this mistake ONLY when using the HalfTone-Mode. ConTone is the "standard" mode for all the RIPs using the EPSON printer driver engine. Some RIPs out the allow their own screening and separation scheme – advantage is a much more better proofing stability (vs. loss of orange/green capabilities (which do not matter when proofing).

Please find attached a scan of the blurred print. You can see the problem in Black only – in the past we had some prints where Cyan was as bad and Magenta was not so bad but not satisfying either.

So – Matthijs you are not alone :-(

Cheers,

Lorenz

PS we have tried adjusting PaperFeed – did not make a dirfference :-(

[Farmer]

We use a RIP (Colorproof XF 4.1) and notice this mistake ONLY when using the HalfTone-Mode. ConTone is the "standard" mode for all the RIPs using the EPSON printer driver engine. Some RIPs out the allow their own screening and separation scheme – advantage is a much more better proofing stability (vs. loss of orange/green capabilities (which do not matter when proofing).

Have you contacted the RIP vendor?  If it's only happening using the RIP in a particular mode, it would seem likely that your problem is RIP related.

[Lorenz]

@Phil

As the banding seems to be exactely the same as Matthijs described (not using a Rip) it makes me think that it is NOT related to a RIP. Seems to be connected to print mode parameters.

And yes we have EFI informed on the issue. They have been investigating the issue and wil be probably talk to Epson – which might be a very helpful channel that an enduser like me is not able to use...

Cheers,

Lorenz

[BobDavid]

I had this same thing happen when the humidity level got really low. With normal humidity levels, no problems.

[Farmer]

@Phil

As the banding seems to be exactely the same as Matthijs described (not using a Rip) it makes me think that it is NOT related to a RIP. Seems to be connected to print mode parameters.

And yes we have EFI informed on the issue. They have been investigating the issue and wil be probably talk to Epson – which might be a very helpful channel that an enduser like me is not able to use...

Cheers,

Lorenz

Sorry, I must have misunderstood.  I thought you indicated that the problem does not exist on your printer if you do not use the RIP?  If you are also seeing it without the RIP then I agree it may be machine related although my previous comments about testing with Epson media and standard settings apply.  If it's not happening without the RIP then I would maintain that it's more likely a RIP issue.  That the symptoms may be similar to another user isn't a strong case for determining the cause either way.

It's certainly good that it's been reported to EFI and I hope it's resolved soon for you.

[stillekracht]

seems that I'm having exactely the same problem with just one little (but may be relevant) difference...

Hi Lorenz,

It certainly "looks" like the same issue.

To make sure it is, would you please try to print a solid black square of 10 x 10 cm.
( Or like the example on this page: http://members.upc.nl/reppel/E9900.html#file )
720 x 1440 @ unidirectional on a fine art paper like Epson Smooth Fine Art using Mat or Photoblack.

To see what happens during printingprocess you have to open the cover. ( Or use a flashlight to see what happens. )
Because the printingprocess will stop when you open the cover you need to insert two small pieces of cardboard in the locks to get the printingprocess going again.

Look for any wavelike pattern during the printingprocess.
Clearly visible on this video: http://members.upc.nl/reppel/E9900.html#video
If you see comparable results it would be a great help if you could make a video of this and post it on youtube and provide us with a link in this topic.

In my case I am convinced it is not a software / RIP issue. ( Epson NL agrees ). It is ofcourse not a humidity issue. ( My studio is always @ 40% minimal )

In my case Epson NL is troubleshooting this on my machine in my time.(!)
For two months now....
The next thing they are going to do is to replace the NVRAM on my machine with the NVRAM from a 9900 that is printing flawless.. according to Epson. [http://members.upc.nl/reppel/E9900_NVRAM.html]

If you want to prevent Epson Germany trying to troubleshoot this issue on your machine ( they will start by replacing the printhead ),
make sure you have a video of the printing process.
When your printingprocess flaw is comparable to mine, refer Epson Germany to Epson NL. Case: card.nl / Stilleprint Dordrecht / EHQ-090591569 / KJFE003379
Or this topic.

Lorenz, please keep us up to date on this issue.
As I will do.
Untill I have a 9900 that is printing flawless....

Hartelijke Groet van Matthijs

[Farmer]

Epson Stylus Pro 9900, Velvet Fine Art Paper (13"x19" sheet), 1440x720, Microweave on, Uni-directional.

Photoshop CS4, PS Manages Colour, canned profile, relative intent, sRGB source, driver to ICM (off) Windows XP SP3 x86, TCP/IP.

Source image 360ppi, colours as specified by OP.  Originally squares were 10cm as suggested, but simply didn't fit conveniently on the available test paper, so resized but maintained resolution and colour.

Scanned on Epson V700 at 360 ppi with all processing OFF (ie no unsharp masking, no colour correction, etc etc).

Converted to JPG quality 9 (no visual change) and cropped but not resized.

Judge for yourselves, but I don't see any quality issues.  I also have a 1200dpi scan that's too big to post, but I see no issues on it, either.

[stillekracht]

Thanks Phil,

no quality issues to be seen indeed.
Did you also look at the printing process while printing black?
So I wish Epson is going to replace my problematic 9900 for a new one which is printing like the one you have.

Hartelijke Groet van Matthijs

Epson Stylus Pro 9900, Velvet Fine Art Paper (13"x19" sheet), 1440x720, Microweave on, Uni-directional.
Judge for yourselves, but I don't see any quality issues.

[Farmer]

Thanks Phil,

no quality issues to be seen indeed.
Did you also look at the printing process while printing black?
So I wish Epson is going to replace my problematic 9900 for a new one which is printing like the one you have.

Hartelijke Groet van Matthijs

No apparent issues during the printing process, although to be honest how it looks during the process is not really something I'm concerned with - it's the final result that counts.