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Author Topic: Drobo Help?  (Read 16623 times)

CBarrett

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Drobo Help?
« on: December 18, 2009, 08:42:41 pm »

Drobo Pro arrived today.  Setting the thing up.  Threw a couple 2TB WD drives in.  During setup Drobo Dashboard presents a capacity slider allowing me to format the volume up to 16TB.  Any idea what I should set it at?

Thanks,

CB
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Christopher

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Drobo Help?
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2009, 09:52:04 pm »

Quote from: CBarrett
Drobo Pro arrived today.  Setting the thing up.  Threw a couple 2TB WD drives in.  During setup Drobo Dashboard presents a capacity slider allowing me to format the volume up to 16TB.  Any idea what I should set it at?

Thanks,

CB

I can't really answer your question, but I would be really interested if you could give your feedback after using it. I'm considering buying on and would love to hear some more about it.
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Carsten W

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« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2009, 01:48:10 am »

Quote from: CBarrett
Drobo Pro arrived today.  Setting the thing up.  Threw a couple 2TB WD drives in.  During setup Drobo Dashboard presents a capacity slider allowing me to format the volume up to 16TB.  Any idea what I should set it at?

Does "a couple" mean two? If so, I recommend putting more drives in, even if they are cheaper and smaller, perhaps 1TB or 1,5TB drives. The DroboPro offers two-drive redundancy, meaning two drives can simultaneously fail, and your data will still be safe. This clearly cannot work if there are only two drives in the box. You need at least three, but then your total capacity is estimated as the total minus the largest two drives. In your case, you will simply get something like RAID 1, i.e. one drive contains a redundant copy of the other. I would put in at least 4 or 5 to start with. Buy in batches of two, max, since drives from the same production batch tend to fail similarly. Ideal would be to buy all drives separately, but I don't know if you want the hassle and shipping costs of that approach.

The volume size doesn't matter until you hit it. As long as your real storage space is smaller, it will just warn you when it is running out of actual space, and you can plop in another drive. Once you hit the volume size, you will need to reformat to keep it one volume, if that is what you want to do. Once you have put in a few more drives, you should be able to choose a larger volume size than 16TB, and unless you prefer managing many small volumes, I would choose 16TB, or even better, 32TB, since that is likely where you will land one day.

This is all IIRC. I have an original Drobo. Great device, if a bit pricy for the features. Truly set and forget. I use mine for both primary (non-active) image storage and Time Machine volume.
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ddk

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« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2009, 02:53:53 am »

Quote from: CBarrett
Drobo Pro arrived today.  Setting the thing up.  Threw a couple 2TB WD drives in.  During setup Drobo Dashboard presents a capacity slider allowing me to format the volume up to 16TB.  Any idea what I should set it at?

Thanks,

CB


Choose the largest capacity, ie 16tb.
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Hywel

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« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2009, 04:24:43 am »

I'm using a DroboPro as my main archival store, currently loaded up with 6 x 1 TB drives and 2 x 2 TB.

I agree with other posters that the first thing to do is to bung in another two or three drives, even cheap 1 TB ones, for data redundancy.

For configuring the drive space, choose 16 TB. UNLESS you intend to use the volume as a Time Machine backup, in which case you should choose a volume size the same as your physical storage or slightly less. (That's because of the way Time Machine clears space if its disk starts to fill up. It'll keep writing new stuff to disk if it thinks there is lots of space and never get rid of older backups, which will eventually overload the top of the Drobo's actual physical storage, at which point the Time Machine backups stop being done properly).

I've got my DroboPro configured as a single 16 TB volume, and a Drobo with 4 x 2 TB in for my Time Machine backups. I've just ordered a second DroboPro to use as my offsite backup device- I believe I can swap disk sets from offsite, rather than having to swap the whole thing, and I can schedule automatic incremental mirroring of the primary DroboPro with rsync (there are benefits to Mac OSX being built on Unix!)

I've found the DroboPro to be a very good product. It is maybe not quite as fast as a RAID array on eSATA, but it is fast enough for my purposes and the flexibility of mixed disk types and sizes in the array is a big plus. Oh, if you do swap a drive for a bigger one at some point, be aware that the rebuild takes a couple of days! The volume remains usable, but without the data redundancy until the rebuild is complete.

  Cheers, Hywel.
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Carsten W

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« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2009, 04:41:44 am »

Quote from: Hywel
For configuring the drive space, choose 16 TB. UNLESS you intend to use the volume as a Time Machine backup, in which case you should choose a volume size the same as your physical storage or slightly less. (That's because of the way Time Machine clears space if its disk starts to fill up. It'll keep writing new stuff to disk if it thinks there is lots of space and never get rid of older backups, which will eventually overload the top of the Drobo's actual physical storage, at which point the Time Machine backups stop being done properly).

That is a good point and it depends a bit on what you want. If you let Time Machine fill it up, you will end up with a full 8*2TB = 16TB drive much sooner than if you keep a lid on TM. You could have one partition at perhaps 4TB for TM and a 16TB for the rest.

Quote
Oh, if you do swap a drive for a bigger one at some point, be aware that the rebuild takes a couple of days! The volume remains usable, but without the data redundancy until the rebuild is complete.

Ouch, so the Pro does have a disadvantage  Keep in mind that the two-drive redundancy means that the data is still protected while it rebuilds a single drive swapped out. As long as there are enough disks, so get up above 4 or so.

By the way, RAID (or Data Robotics' similar tech) hits drives much more often than straight storage, so drives will tend to be worked harder. For this reason I have been buying the RAID edition Western Digital drives. They are designed for exactly this, without the cost of going to SCSI.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2009, 04:44:00 am by carstenw »
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CBarrett

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Drobo Help?
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2009, 06:20:52 am »

Thanks for all the help, guys.  I did go 16tb, as I assumed I would just end up with a virtual JBOD otherwise... a bunch of disk turned into a dingle volume that pretends that it's multiple volumes?  Silly.

I have another 1.5 tb drive I'll throw in after I move it's data over and maybe go ahead and pickup another 2tb.

I won't be using this for time machine, strictly for hot storage, planning to keep my entire digital photo library on it, which will also be backed up to external drives which will remain off most of the time.

Raid Class drives?  I went with the WD Enterprise Class, will have to look for those others.

But no time to play now, off to Acapulco.

Happy Holidays, Shooters!

-CB
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Hywel

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« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2009, 06:56:29 am »

Quote from: carstenw
Ouch, so the Pro does have a disadvantage  Keep in mind that the two-drive redundancy means that the data is still protected while it rebuilds a single drive swapped out. As long as there are enough disks, so get up above 4 or so.

By the way, RAID (or Data Robotics' similar tech) hits drives much more often than straight storage, so drives will tend to be worked harder. For this reason I have been buying the RAID edition Western Digital drives. They are designed for exactly this, without the cost of going to SCSI.

A good point. If you are using the array for hot storage as you work, it probably is worth investing in higher quality drives. On the other hand the ID in RAID stands for Inexpensive Disks - one of the reasons RAID has caught on so much is its ability to use an array of cheaper drives in place of enterprise or data centre grade solutions. So I must admit on my archival arrays I tend to bung in cheap high capacity drives and rely on single or double redundancy. I have expensive drives in the hot working RAID internal array in my MacPro, though, as they do get worked VERY hard.

My second DroboPro arrives on Tuesday, hooray! Nothing beats that warm "I have a vaguely coherent offsite backup strategy so if my house burns down I still have all my photos" feeling...  

  Cheers, Hywel.
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Carsten W

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« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2009, 07:43:47 am »

The RAID Edition drives have RE in the name. Here is a quick link with some info:

http://www.cwol.com/serial-ata/sata-ii-har...-digital-re.htm
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Tim Gray

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« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2009, 07:46:55 am »

My 2 cents is a bit late, but one thing to consider with a 16TB setup is that it (at lease my windows box) takes FOREVER to boot.
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Carsten W

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« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2009, 08:01:42 am »

Quote from: Tim Gray
My 2 cents is a bit late, but one thing to consider with a 16TB setup is that it (at lease my windows box) takes FOREVER to boot.

did you install Windows on it??
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ddk

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« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2009, 10:55:34 am »

Quote from: CBarrett
I won't be using this for time machine, strictly for hot storage, planning to keep my entire digital photo library on it, which will also be backed up to external drives which will remain off most of the time.
-CB

If by hot storage you mean that you'll be working with the files stored on the drobo, you're in for an unpleasant surprise, drobos are just too slow for that and best used for static storage.
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Christopher

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« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2009, 11:03:07 am »

Quote from: John-S
But some useful info. Hitachi is the only drive maker present with 2TB drives which are 7200RPM. Seagate and WD 2TB drives have much less RPM. In fact the WD drives approach a laptop drive spindle speed of 5400 and the Seagate is somewhere in the 6K RPM range IIRC.

Just wanted to say something here, because I am looking at some drives right now. The statement is not really true. For example take the Western Digital WD RE4 2TB, probably besides the Samsung, one of the fastest drives out there. As well as the Seagate Barracuda XT 2TB, quit fast. Both run at full 7200RPM like the Hitachi.
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Christopher Hauser
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« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2009, 11:03:15 am »

have anyone ever recovered from a Drobo failure ? how's the recovery process like ?
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narikin

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« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2009, 11:12:13 am »

I had one of the regular (nonPro) drobos and was distinctly unimpressed. sent it back within the week. its really a backup for completely non tech people. very slow, expensive and rather amateurish operation. The Pro hopefully is a lot better, BUT I would recommend someone to take a look at the many other serious professional and affordable solutions there are:

I ended up with QNap NAS storage: the TS-809Pro is the 8 drive equivalent of the ProDrobo, and a lot heavier duty.
it also works as a NAS, which means, that you can leave it on and access your data from anywhere else, be it another computer in the same building, or remotely, from the other side of the world - surprisingly useful. Many Raid levels, including 5 or 6, Mac or PC, huge user base and forums, serious heavy duty operation, free quality backup software etc. and yes it works with Time Machine.

they also do smaller ones with less bays if you don't need that big an array.

the 8bay one wins many 'best NAS storage/server awards' such as :
http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?opti...mp;limitstart=5

other good brands to look at are Synology and Thecus.


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feppe

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« Reply #15 on: December 19, 2009, 11:13:35 am »

Quote from: carstenw
By the way, RAID (or Data Robotics' similar tech) hits drives much more often than straight storage, so drives will tend to be worked harder. For this reason I have been buying the RAID edition Western Digital drives. They are designed for exactly this, without the cost of going to SCSI.

That's defeating the whole point of RAID (Redundant Array of Inexpensive Disks).

Also, to the other poster above, RAID is not backup - it is designed for uptime and/or speed depending on the mode.

Christopher

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« Reply #16 on: December 19, 2009, 11:15:38 am »

Quote from: narikin
I had one of the regular (nonPro) drobos and was distinctly unimpressed. sent it back within the week. its really a backup for completely non tech people. very slow, expensive and rather amateurish operation. The Pro hopefully is a lot better, BUT I would recommend someone to take a look at the many other serious professional and affordable solutions there are:

I ended up with QNap NAS storage: the TS-809Pro is the 8 drive equivalent of the ProDrobo, and a lot heavier duty.
it also works as a NAS, which means, that you can leave it on and access your data from anywhere else, be it another computer in the same building, or remotely, from the other side of the world - surprisingly useful. Many Raid levels, including 5 or 6, Mac or PC, huge user base and forums, serious heavy duty operation, free quality backup software etc. and yes it works with Time Machine.

they also do smaller ones with less bays if you don't need that big an array.

the 8bay one wins many 'best NAS storage/server awards' such as :
http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?opti...mp;limitstart=5

other good brands to look at are Synology and Thecus.


I think that is an very interesting point. I am really struggling between a QNap or the DroboPro. I think one huge point for the drobo, is that one does not have to get into NAS and their own file system stuff and can use it as "normal external drive" with the normal OS file system. That is for me a very tempting point.
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Christopher

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« Reply #17 on: December 19, 2009, 11:22:36 am »

Some more drive options:

Hitachi DeskStar 7K2000   -   120EUR
Hitachi UltraStar A7K2000   -   250EUR

Seagate Barracuda XT 7200.12   -   250EUR

Western Digital Caviar Black   -   230EUR
Western Digital RE4   -   250EUR

edit:

All run at full 7200rpm and are if course 2TB drives.

edit 2:

Samsung EcoGreen F3 2000GB - 120 (Just runs at 5400rpm)
« Last Edit: December 19, 2009, 11:24:22 am by Christopher »
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« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2009, 11:26:15 am »

Quote from: Christopher
I think that is an very interesting point. I am really struggling between a QNap or the DroboPro. I think one huge point for the drobo, is that one does not have to get into NAS and their own file system stuff and can use it as "normal external drive" with the normal OS file system. That is for me a very tempting point.

Same here. I've been looking at different hardware and software NAS and RAID solutions, and there's nothing even close to Drobo in ease of use and flexibility.

If one doesn't mind spending hours setting up, tweaking, finding room for and the right drive bays and/or cables, formatting, partitioning, setting different RAID modes, fighting with drivers, sending back a new replacement drive since it's different size than the rest, facing the same major headache when running out of space and having to upgrade all drives at the same time (and where to put the data in the meanwhile?), etc. ad nauseam, there are plenty of options. But if you want a plug-and-play solution which just works, and in which you just insert drives of any size and make, Drobo is the only product which delivers that. Some of the above problems are solved in some solutions, but Drobo has solved them all - at least on paper since I don't have one yet.

The only reservation I have is that I've heard the the Drobos have a high failure rate. This is anecdotally, although some reports claim to be from retailers themselves. It's also very slow (especially compared to striping), but it doesn't really matter for my use.

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« Reply #19 on: December 19, 2009, 01:32:51 pm »

Before joining Capture Integration, I had no experience selling the Drobos, so while we do sell them, I'm relatively new to the product. But the benefits seem to be ease of use, cost efficiency, ability to utilize a RAID 6 (2 drives can fail without loss of data). It does have some limitations and potential weaknesses, in my opinion. Read/write speed has been one weakness. The other is that mixing and matching drives produces a system that has inconsistent quality control. While some users will do their due diligence regarding purchasing high quality drives from one manufacturer, I feel most will take advantage of the ability to reduce costs by purchasing drives of varying quality.

I agree there are quality alternatives out there, OWC, etc, although we cannot sell OWC products. In the past (going back about 3+ years) I have sold the LaCie RAID boxes like the 4Big Quadra in iterations of 2TB - 8TB, and Capture Integration now sells the LaCie product line. Despite having 4 drives in the enclosure, the 4Big Quadras can be easily configured as a single icon on a desktop, which can make backup processes very simple and easy. These are every bit as easy to set up (in fact maybe easier) as a Drobo, and they have proven themselves extremely reliable. The read/write speeds are extremely fast. So, for the user, they are simple, fast, affordable, and sold by a company that has been around a while and will likely continue. LaCie now has a formal VAR program, so a Value Add dealer like Capture Integration has a direct support channel and can circumvent the laborious tier one level support that's available for most e-commerce resellers.

I'm very concerned about data storage for photographers these days. I see way, way too many photographers who don't have an effective backup strategy implemented. In fact I even see photographers, and I mean good, talented, successful photographers, that do not have data redundancy period. Just really scary. And surprising.

For me, the most important elements for a photographer in terms of data backup are clarity of strategy and sustained ease of implementation and maintenance of that strategy.

The biggest advantage that the quality RAID boxes offer is higher capacity and greater real-time reliability than individual drives. This reduces the complexity and number of interfaces that a photographer will have to deal with, which enables storage purchases to be less frequent and backup strategies to be more easily maintained. I see way too many studios with multiple small to medium size drives that quickly fill up, forcing the photographer to buy yet another small to medium capacity drive. This produces inefficiency and increases data risk. Ideally, a photographer can purchase storage that will last at least 2 to 3 years without adding to it, and be able to easily fulfill their strategy for effective redundancy of their data.


Steve Hendrix
« Last Edit: December 19, 2009, 01:34:26 pm by Steve Hendrix »
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