Canon 50D vs Rebel--what's the point?

[DarkPenguin]

Yes, but I said if you are "more serious about photography. . . ." And that is a true statement.

For a lot of people who are "more serious about photography" they do not need the camera to do much.  How much do you really need the camera to do if you use it to shoot landscapes?  Oddly one of the more recent items makes the biggest difference - live view.

[dwdallam]

For a lot of people who are "more serious about photography" they do not need the camera to do much.  How much do you really need the camera to do if you use it to shoot landscapes?  Oddly one of the more recent items makes the biggest difference - live view.

It's now all moot anyway. I found a T1i for 609 and a 50D for 939.00 and further research has these two about 300US+ difference between each other. 300 is substantial. I was mislead when I looked at B&H for the price difference of both cameras.

[feppe]

And you'd be wrong, for simplicity of operation (navigation)  alone.

I guess I'm doing something wrong, shooting "serious" photography for years with a 450D.

Just because your type of shooting might benefit from a 2nd scroll wheel and a top LCD, I couldn't care less about them - I didn't even realize the camera doesn't have them, and I used to shoot with a 30D and 50E before.

[BJL]

I wonder if the Rebel is going to be phased out and replaced by the 50D series camera, especially with the release of the 7D.

It is the other way around, which is part of why the 50D is such a good deal now: the old no-video 50D is being discounted as it heads towards discontinuation in favor of the 7D (which is the "60D" by another name, perhaps to move away from confusion between Canon xxD and Nikon Dxx model naming?)

[fike]

The expense of the camera you shoot with isn't the critical determining factor of the quality or seriousness of your work.  Great photos and great photographers work with all kind of cameras.  I happen to like the ergonomic features of the 50D and feel that it is worth the extra cost.  


to each his own...

As for the 7D replacing the X0D series.  According to Canon, that isn't their intent.  They plan to keep the 7D and continue the X0D series.  While this seems like overkill in the number of different feature sets and camera bodies, they probably have minor incremental investments to keep a line of cameras going. The X0D series body has only changed superficially in each incarnation.  The real expense of the camera is probably in the semiconductors and the prism, not the body.  In many cases, feature differentiation is a function of software (video capture with a camera that has live preview, for example).  I think they feel that they can reach more price-points with more models.

[NikoJorj]

I hear build quality as an argument a lot, but [...]

Case study : does a 50D stand a 1000m (3000ft for those who count on their feet) free fall? A 350D/RebelXT did.
Explainatory hypothesis : plastic absorbs shock much better than magnesium alloy.

These cases, with DarkPenguin's one above, make the "build quality" a bit of a moot point for me.
When you tell things close, there are many examples of lighter designs being tougher. Snow is falling here in the French Alps, so the first coming to my mind is this one...

[fike]

Case study : does a 50D stand a 1000m (3000ft for those who count on their feet) free fall? A 350D/RebelXT did.
Explainatory hypothesis : plastic absorbs shock much better than magnesium alloy.

These cases, with DarkPenguin's one above, make the "build quality" a bit of a moot point for me.
When you tell things close, there are many examples of lighter designs being tougher. Snow is falling here in the French Alps, so the first coming to my mind is this one...

You are probably right that the extra weight makes the camera more fragile when falling from a substantial height.  On the other hand, most of the bumps and bruises I give my camera are from it swinging under my arm and hitting rocks and railings and stuff.  

On the other hand, have you ever seen a large, heavy L lens mounted on a rebel.  The balance seems like it would be quite awkward with a 24-70 L or a 100-400 L.  While weight and size of the camera isn't always correlated to image quality, weight and size of lenses probably is correlated to quality.

the rebel series has never felt comfortable in my hand. Its size is certainly a factor in this.

[BJL]

Explanatory hypothesis : plastic absorbs shock much better than magnesium alloy.

This is what I have heard often: polycarbonate camera body shells dissipate a good proportion of the vibrational energy generated by impacts, whereas metal body shells transmit energy more efficiently to the delicate insides of the camera. So even if the metal body itself holds up well, the camera is more likely to stop working than one protected by shock-absorbing polycarbonate.

On the other hand, for camera exposes to frequent low-level beatings, as with the well-traveled gear of many photo-journalists, a rugged metal body might last past the time when a polycarbonate shell itself breaks down.


Aside: Polycarbonate is what so-called bullet-proof glass is often made of. Using the generic description "plastic" to conjure up connotations of cheaper, far less robust polymer materials is a bit misleading.

[feppe]

On the other hand, have you ever seen a large, heavy L lens mounted on a rebel.  The balance seems like it would be quite awkward with a 24-70 L or a 100-400 L.  While weight and size of the camera isn't always correlated to image quality, weight and size of lenses probably is correlated to quality.

I recently sold my Canon 28-105mm L lens, which I would characterize as medium-heavy. It's definitely front-heavy with a 450D, but held properly by cradling the lens with the left hand it is fine. I don't shoot long zooms (or primes), but I can imagine them getting uncomfortably unbalanced at some point.

[Craig Lamson]

You are probably right that the extra weight makes the camera more fragile when falling from a substantial height.  On the other hand, most of the bumps and bruises I give my camera are from it swinging under my arm and hitting rocks and railings and stuff.  

On the other hand, have you ever seen a large, heavy L lens mounted on a rebel.  The balance seems like it would be quite awkward with a 24-70 L or a 100-400 L.  While weight and size of the camera isn't always correlated to image quality, weight and size of lenses probably is correlated to quality.

the rebel series has never felt comfortable in my hand. Its size is certainly a factor in this.

I'm currently shooting a job using the 450d and 500d, hand holding all day long with a 24-105, for days on end...expecting maybe a 100 days total, and an image count of 30k.  I'm getting quite comfortable with the "keychain" cameras.  I fully expect to burn the 450d to the ground on this project, but we will see how it holds up.  

For the record I also own a 1DsIII and a 5d.

[schrodingerscat]

When the 7D came out, the 50D became the bastard stepchild and Canon gave the dealers price support to help clear inventory. When Canon's stockpile empties, it will be removed from the catalog. Same thing happened with the XTi when the Si came out.

Most of this stuff is single batch produced. There is usually a bit of overlap from one model to the next depending on how well they gauged the inventory/demand/sales ratio. The flaky economic situation at the moment has also thrown a spanner into the equation. Canon may have been caught off guard and didn't move the number of 50D's they had counted on. Once the 7D ball got rolling, they had to sart moving them. Work on it's replacement is probably well under way by now. The manufacturers have painted themselves into a bit of a corner with this. They have to have the next version ready to market before running out of the last one.

For a lot of folks, a hundred bux may be the difference between paying the bills or not. If you don't need the next step up, why spend the extra. I spend two days a week at the store I contract with and most of the people I see buying lower/middle end DSLR's are not what I would call "serious hobbyists". Their camera is set on the green rectangle and they have no idea what shutter speeds do or what an f stop is. Before digital, they would have bought a P&S and the digital P&S seems to have become the pocket and purse camera.

[dwdallam]

Aside: Polycarbonate is what so-called bullet-proof glass is often made of. Using the generic description "plastic" to conjure up connotations of cheaper, far less robust polymer materials is a bit misleading.

I'd rather have the pro cameras made from something like pelican cases are made from, some type of poly but strengthened ever more. They can be pretty much any color you want and thus are not prone to scratches and scuffing, along with their resilience. To get a poly skin thick enough for a pro camera would probably outweigh the magnesium though. Pelican cases are heavy.

[dwdallam]

and the digital P&S seems to have become the pocket and purse camera.

Now it's the iPhone types of cell phones that are pocket cameras. They are plenty good for pretty darn good quality snapshots. Many are now over 3Mpx and include video.

[schrodingerscat]

Now it's the iPhone types of cell phones that are pocket cameras. They are plenty good for pretty darn good quality snapshots. Many are now over 3Mpx and include video.

In Japan they've had 8+MP 3X optical zoom cameras in phones for awhile and everywhere you go people are taking phone pics and video. Speculation is that P&S cameras may be phased out there in the next few years.

[dwdallam]

In Japan they've had 8+MP 3X optical zoom cameras in phones for awhile and everywhere you go people are taking phone pics and video. Speculation is that P&S cameras may be phased out there in the next few years.

Eventually technology will take us to a point where even cameras like the DX3 and 1DSMKIII will be point and shoot in size.

[fike]

Eventually technology will take us to a point where even cameras like the DX3 and 1DSMKIII will be point and shoot in size.

Innovation rarely takes the vector we expect. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzm6pvHPSGo

[NikoJorj]

On the other hand, have you ever seen a large, heavy L lens mounted on a rebel.  The balance seems like it would be quite awkward with a 24-70 L or a 100-400 L.

I tried a 100-400l on a 300d/rebel, and as long as you just carry it by the lens it's not that awkward (not very convenient to point upwards though)... The whole lens+camera set has just the weight of a dead donkey (french proverbial).

Even for lenses, I prefer the lighter 55-250IS to the heavier L offerings, for the same weight (and price) reasons.
I'm often amused that this 55-250 gives me ca. 100-400mm equivalent, with same apertures - and better stabilisation from what I've heard, just 4 times lighter and 6 times cheaper, and the sharpness difference with the 100-400L I tried is not that significant on my old rebel. I don't wanna go full frame!
Yes, sometimes I wish I had the real-USM AF on my plastic toy...