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Author Topic: 645AFD/II vs Hassy H2 (lenses mostly)  (Read 4684 times)

DanielStone

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645AFD/II vs Hassy H2 (lenses mostly)
« on: December 13, 2009, 03:41:03 pm »

hey all,

I've been mulling over this for a few months now, and need to ask this here.

I've currently got a Hassy H2, and love the camera to death, but the lenses are bloody expensive(I'm a current photo student). I'm ONLY shooting FILM, Portra mostly(160VC/400VC/800). Got the camera for 2k(with film back, prism and 80 lens, two batt's and 1 charger) earlier this year, thought it was a good price at the time, didn't really think about adding lenses down the line  !

but only having the 80mm is somewhat limiting at times....

So, I've been considering switching over to the 645afd/II bodies, since most of my work I've been shooting has been available light, no strobes, sometimes a fill card or continuous borrowed from a friend...

lenses from what I've seen from the Mamiyas(I have a RZ too) are great, and some nice, fast offerings to boot... mostly the 50-110 zoom(don't really like zooms, but this one's ok), and the 35mm, in addition to the 80mm 2.8.

even replacement batt's are expensive, even used(when they come up on ebay) for the H2, where as the Mamiya uses AA's(brick for $12 at costco).

reccomendations? I like the feel of the H2 in my hand(I know, probably the only person alive who will admit this), and the leaf shutter is great too, especially IF i used strobes for fill....


the Mamiya is lighter(from the last time I used one), so that's a plus... for hand-holding for a while.


ideas, recc's?

thanks

Dan


p.s.   are the new leaf shutter lenses for the Phase one 645/DF cameras able to work on the 645afd/afd II/afdIII bodies?  is the III body able to be used with film, or only digital?

thanks
« Last Edit: December 13, 2009, 03:42:28 pm by DanielStone »
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DanielStone

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645AFD/II vs Hassy H2 (lenses mostly)
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2009, 03:54:31 pm »

the other option would be a 503cw with a winder, most of my friends use 500-series bodies so I could borrow lenses....


eventually will go digital with this camera, actually more considering the 503/501cm because of NO BATTERIES. so for backpacking/camping away from power outlets, etc... it would work better...


-Dan
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mcfoto

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645AFD/II vs Hassy H2 (lenses mostly)
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2009, 04:22:04 pm »

Hi
If you are used to the AF on the H2 forget about going to the older 500CM. I went from the 500CM to the Mamiya AFD 10 years ago and have never missed the 500CM. If you are going to switch to the Mamiya system go for the new DF body as it will be similar in shutter lag to the H2. We did a 120 lens comparison between the Hasselblad & Mamiya ( not the D lens ) back in 2006 and they were the same. We use the 55-110 lens most of the time when we use the Mamiya & at F 11 we get very good results. The older lenses 35, 45, 55, 80, 120, 150,210, 105-210 & 55-110 are great value on ebay. The newer lenses especially the leaf shutter ones look excellent but the price is higher.
Cheers Denis
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Denis Montalbetti
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DanielStone

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645AFD/II vs Hassy H2 (lenses mostly)
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2009, 04:25:38 pm »

thanks Denis,

I use AF *sometimes* (10% of the time). 90% manual focus....

so its not a big deal either way really...

thanks

-Dan
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Mr. Rib

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645AFD/II vs Hassy H2 (lenses mostly)
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2009, 04:35:19 pm »

If money is one of you main concerns, why don't simply stick with RZ67? If we are talking about the money, new leaf lenses are quite expensive and I wouldn't expect them to be available at 2nd market cheap anytime soon.
For me (former Rollei 6008AF user, recently 645AFDII and RZ) RZ is the way to go if money is your concern.  If you don't want to loose AF feature I'd go for DF body, AF on 645AFD is terrible. On 645AFDII it's still not good.
IMHO, switching from H2 to 645AFD is not a good idea. 645AFDIII or DF - it makes sense, but I'm not sure if that's a money saver..
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Carsten W

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645AFD/II vs Hassy H2 (lenses mostly)
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2009, 05:03:21 pm »

You could get the V lens adapter and buy some older V lenses. There are many good ones at reasonable prices.
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asf

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645AFD/II vs Hassy H2 (lenses mostly)
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2009, 05:32:10 pm »

Shooting film and money is a concern?

Stick with RZ. Amazing quality, lenses can be had cheaply. No version of Mamiya 645 will come close.

You can use with digital when/if that time comes.
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Mr. Rib

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645AFD/II vs Hassy H2 (lenses mostly)
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2009, 05:58:19 pm »

If money is on the line, there is nothing that comes close to RZ lenses in terms of quality/value ratio (taking onto account 2nd hand market, but I assume that's the case). Not to mention the fact that in MF there are not many lenses which come close to RZ lenses in terms of quality itself..
To be honest  I would get a digital back asap, shooting film is much more expensive. There are so many great opportunities now to get one that it shouldn't pose a problem even with a low budget.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2009, 06:02:27 pm by Mr. Rib »
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John Collins

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645AFD/II vs Hassy H2 (lenses mostly)
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2009, 05:59:15 pm »

Hello Dan,

I would suggest that for a camera that is more portable than an RZ a 503CW would be the nut. A 50CF/100CF/180CF gives you a range of very sharp lenses. As of late, prices aren't too bad... I used this set-up for years and recommend it highly.

John
« Last Edit: December 13, 2009, 06:00:44 pm by John Collins »
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bcooter

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645AFD/II vs Hassy H2 (lenses mostly)
« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2009, 08:00:38 pm »

Quote from: DanielStone
(I'm a current photo student).

If your a student, don't get hung up on the equipment thing, unless it keeps you from doing something interesting, or you can't get to your vision, but honestly any camera will allow that at the student level. (or any level for that matter).

When you break out of school, no AD or client is going to look at your website or prints and ask if you can shoot a certain format, they'll just look at the pictures and try to see if what you do works for them.

If you got a burning desire to spend money, put the money in your photography.  Students can always rent, beg, borrow whatever they need and most rental companies will cut a student a deal.

But if you gotta buy, remember, that the H system is the most viable medium format camera out there and you can always sell it once your making some bucks and you want to change, but if you buy right you'll probably not loose a penny if you decide to sell it later.

Still don't worry about the camera, worry about your portfolio, your business skills, your ability to shoot unique and professionally.

BC
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DanielStone

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645AFD/II vs Hassy H2 (lenses mostly)
« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2009, 09:12:50 pm »

thanks BC,

your candor is always much appreciated!

so, would you recommend STAYING with the H then?


thanks everyone for your replies, much appreciated!

OTHERS: if you got something to say, please do!

-Dan
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DanielStone

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645AFD/II vs Hassy H2 (lenses mostly)
« Reply #11 on: December 13, 2009, 09:13:34 pm »

bc,

do you have a website, from all the things you've written about on other threads, I'd love to see your work!

-Dan
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DanielStone

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645AFD/II vs Hassy H2 (lenses mostly)
« Reply #12 on: December 13, 2009, 09:22:10 pm »

Quote from: Mr. Rib
If money is on the line, there is nothing that comes close to RZ lenses in terms of quality/value ratio (taking onto account 2nd hand market, but I assume that's the case). Not to mention the fact that in MF there are not many lenses which come close to RZ lenses in terms of quality itself..
To be honest  I would get a digital back asap, shooting film is much more expensive. There are so many great opportunities now to get one that it shouldn't pose a problem even with a low budget.


my answer to 'film is expensive' is ebay, to be quite frank . I just got 80 rolls of 220 400vc for 3/8s the price of it new. Same thing with Fuji polaroid.

B/W I shoot Acros($3/roll, $2.65 when I get 10 or more at a time) and 400TMAX(3.50/roll)  10x more acros than tmax400...

I process b/w myself, and I got a line on processing for 135/120/220 c-41 for $3/roll for either 120/220 c-41, $1.50/roll for 35mm. Therefore, I'm shooting more 220 now than 120, just because its 1/2 the price. I make my own contact sheets for both, and scan it myself(1 man operation )

BUT, when I'm shooting professionally, eventually, I'll be taking the film to a lab, and billing it to the client. EXCEPT b/w, which I'll ALWAYS do myself. I don't trust any labs for that, I'm afraid . Besides, its freakin' cheap! my rough estimates(I use HC-110) is like 35c/roll for 35mm or 120. so, cheap....

I still haven't shot more than $3k worth of film/polaroid/photo paper(contact sheets) in the last 2 1/2 years. Compared to $8K for a D3x or and Aptus II-5, I'm still at 3/8's the price. I like the processing, since I have control over it. But I'm a photographer, not a lab tech. So for now, I process it myself for the most part.... but when I shoot professionally, it will be digi mostly(D4x or lo-res digi back, etc...), but I'll continue to shoot film, cause I like the results so much !

-Dan
« Last Edit: December 13, 2009, 09:24:16 pm by DanielStone »
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Mr. Rib

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645AFD/II vs Hassy H2 (lenses mostly)
« Reply #13 on: December 14, 2009, 04:40:17 am »

You can always find yourself a great lab. I know Piotr Sikora has been working with the same lab for years -  bunch of asian guys, I think they're from Thailand and moved to USA. He's using an RZ67 and shoots mostly with 110mm and film as far as I know. The lab guys do the scanning / developing. I found a lab in which they can develop each B/W shot, it's enough to tell them what you want  with each shot on the basis of small sample (I don't know what's the english term for it, contact sheet? ) and they do it perfectly. I recommend finding such guys, it's such a relief.. and it's a good thing business-wise to have someone reliable, someone on which you can always count. Unless you're a type of guy that's gotta have the control over full process, I used to be like that.

One great thing about a back not mentioned here is the workflow- it's sooo much faster to post-process..it was a huge change for me when I got a back. Time is money. You'll have much more time and field to experiment. I thought I'll be shooting film along with shooting digital, but I didn't shoot a single roll since getting a MFDB! Maybe I'll get a scanmate and a used Rollei 6008 but it would be just for fun  You would appreciate a lo-res back and I would strongly consider it if I were you. There are some great occasions on ebay.
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DanielStone

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645AFD/II vs Hassy H2 (lenses mostly)
« Reply #14 on: December 14, 2009, 12:45:08 pm »

thanks rib,

unfortunately, with the meager amount of money I'm getting from small portrait jobs(christmas family photos) right now, and my expenses for school/driving (hell, I live in LA ). its not practical, at least right now, for me to get a back.

I've borrowed a friends 5dII, and that was a nice camera, but another friend who has the D3x, he likes my H2, and we've borrowed from each other on a few occasions, THAT camera(D3x) is a dream to use!!! Super bright viewfinder, fast, shooting large jpegs is like shooting film almost!

but my trusty f100(soon to upgrade to and F5 body) with some 160vc/400vc loaded in it, along with my 50mm 1.8/35mm 2.8 af lenses seems to do the job for most situations... most people are just interested in getting their family photo on a christmas card(think 3"x5" max), so I don't need 120 quality. I'll shoot the RZ or H2 when the client says they're going to want an 11x14 or 16x20 print to hang over the fireplace. I print/matte those myself, and charge appropriately for it .

so far, so good!

I do agree though that the workflow might be easier. That I have NO DOUBT OF!!! but right now, I'm so used to shooting it(usually 2-3 rolls max for a 1hr family sitting, 35mm), going to school and processing it/proofing it(proofsheet), and calling the client back to schedule a time to review the contact sheets, generally no more than 20min(I would have already made my selects on the proofsheet), so I know which ones I like already.

cash only, keeps it simple. I know I can't do this 'run and gun' thing much longer. It doesn't make much money, but its money, and that's the important thing afterall.

I then scan the film at a res. that gives enough for a 8x10 print(of their choosing), then I take that final file to Costco, and get it printed out. bing, badda, boom !

somehow though, if I shoot digital(as I have on a few occasions), I shoot 2-3x more generally. So shooting film helps me concentrate on getting GREAT photos. not just A LOT of photos

-Dan
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bcooter

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645AFD/II vs Hassy H2 (lenses mostly)
« Reply #15 on: December 14, 2009, 02:42:20 pm »

Quote from: DanielStone
cash only, keeps it simple.

Cameras are personal, but keep in mind that this forum is mostly about tech, gear, or  especially tech/gear sales, so take everything with a grain of salt, including my advice.

Regardless, you can buy a Canon 1ds1 that shoots jpegs and raw, still works with 99.9999 % of all the software in the market and will do anything any camera in this world will do that you need right now.

The number of images you've seen produced with a Canon 11 megapixel camera would stretch to the moon and back.

I think a used 1ds on KEH is about 800 bucks, put a 4x5 masked off screen in it  and a few cheap used primes and your off to the races.

You'll learn how to work a file, develop a professional workflow, how to properly enlarge a file  and I know that everybody will tell you that 11.5 megapixels won't enlarge but I've got images from that camera 6' high and nobody walks into my studios and says a word about the detail.

You'll see more of a difference in post production processing than you ever will between cameras.

The wise man/woman in the digital age is the one that disregards all of this talk and just uses what they have until it just won't work anymore.

There are hundreds of great photographers that shot polaroid and film with old beat up wooden cameras, nikon fm2's, leicas that rattled and the knobs were busted and they didn't need or care about buying a camera every 18 months.  You'd be amazed at how little most of them cared about the actual "camera".

http://www.guybourdin.org/

http://www.helmutnewton.com/

http://www.herbritts.com/

http://www.paoloroversi.com/

http://www.terryrichardson.com/

http://www.independent.co.uk/multimedia/ar...z700_33742b.jpg

http://www.peggysirota.com/

(this list could go on forever).

Put your money in your photography and just gaffer tape over the logo if it bothers you.  Nobody is gonna care, including the people that hire you.

BC
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DanielStone

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645AFD/II vs Hassy H2 (lenses mostly)
« Reply #16 on: December 14, 2009, 03:03:25 pm »

thanks bc,

I needed that kick in the pants

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