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Author Topic: Alpa max + TC - lens recommendations?  (Read 16445 times)

CBarrett

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Alpa max + TC - lens recommendations?
« Reply #20 on: December 16, 2009, 12:21:36 pm »

Quote from: rainer_v
the 60HR has about 18 - 20 mm movement on a 36x48mm sensor, so u can estimate that still 12mm are with the p65 possible. its the most conservative rated lens from  rodenstock in terms of image circle ...


All this talk has me re-examining my lenses, especially since I bought them all when I was still shooting a P45+.  I know my 35mm and 45mm have to go, but what about the 55mm Apo-Sironar Digital?  I was always pretty pleased with this lens in the past....

Here's a sample using the P65+ with 30mm of rise and 30mm of fall.  The fall isn't a good test for sharpness because that area is so foreground as to fall out of the depth of field.  The tree gets soft towards the top of the rise, but not as bad as one might expect.  I'd say the thing easily has 20mm of rise on a P65+.  I'm keepin it!



380mb full size tiff


-CB
« Last Edit: December 16, 2009, 12:26:30 pm by CBarrett »
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Murray Fredericks

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Alpa max + TC - lens recommendations?
« Reply #21 on: December 16, 2009, 01:34:55 pm »

Quote from: CBarrett
but what about the 55mm Apo-Sironar Digital?  



-CB
Is there some reason this lens is not on the Alpa Price List?

It would be perfect for my needs...

Cheers

Murray
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CBarrett

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Alpa max + TC - lens recommendations?
« Reply #22 on: December 16, 2009, 01:54:15 pm »

Quote from: Murray Fredericks
Is there some reason this lens is not on the Alpa Price List?

It would be perfect for my needs...

Cheers

Murray


Sorry, Murray... I forgot this was an Alpa thread... I was shooting on an Arca.
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Wayne Fox

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Alpa max + TC - lens recommendations?
« Reply #23 on: December 16, 2009, 03:35:49 pm »

Quote from: narikin
yes, exactly digital lenses are now designed for smaller 645 size sensors.

For example, Rodenstock reacted so fast to the smaller sensors, that they designed a new series of lenses with an image circle that just fits the 30-39mp sensors. Then full frame 60mp ones arrived, and shifting + stitching arrived, which meant they were of less use. Consequently there's a lens range (Digaron-S) with stunning resolution but nothing to spare in coverage, like 1 or 2mm only!

so... they designed the Digaron-W range, which has some room to spare for larger sensors for shifting or stitching, think of them covering 6x9 with a little extra.

and... you can buy the 'Apo Sironar Digital' ones if you want a really big stitch area, think 4x5" with no extra.

or if you need a massive area, just buy a non digital Large Format 4x5" lens, for huge coverage, but lacking digital quality resolution.

it simply comes down to more resolution OR a bigger image circle - your choice!

Thanks.  This is very helpful.
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JoeKitchen

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Alpa max + TC - lens recommendations?
« Reply #24 on: December 16, 2009, 06:10:19 pm »

Chris,

What 35 are you using and what do you plan on replacing it with?
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CBarrett

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Alpa max + TC - lens recommendations?
« Reply #25 on: December 16, 2009, 06:21:12 pm »

Quote from: JoeKitchen
Chris,

What 35 are you using and what do you plan on replacing it with?

My 35 and 45 are both Apo-Sironar Digital.  I plan to swap those out for the 28mm Super Digitar (someday) and 40mm HR.  Then the lineup will be:

28mm   Schneider Super Digitar
40mm   Rodenstock HR Digaron-W
55mm   Rodenstock Apo-Sironar Digi
70mm   Rodenstock HR Digaron-W
90mm   Rodenstock HR Digaron-W
135mm Rodenstock Apo-Sironar Digi

I think that set will take pretty good care of me and the P65+.
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schaubild

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Alpa max + TC - lens recommendations?
« Reply #26 on: December 16, 2009, 11:03:10 pm »

Quote from: Murray Fredericks
Is there some reason this lens is not on the Alpa Price List?

It would be perfect for my needs...

Cheers

Murray



The Alpa Alpar 55mm is based on this lens. so it's on the list.
But it has to be added that these lenses are not optimized for 6 micron sensors, so you'll give away resolution.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2009, 01:30:57 am by schaubild »
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Murray Fredericks

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Alpa max + TC - lens recommendations?
« Reply #27 on: December 17, 2009, 02:18:25 am »

Quote from: schaubild
The Alpa Alpar 55mm is based on this lens. so it's on the list.
But it has to be added that these lenses are not optimized for 6 micron sensors, so you'll give away resolution.


Any idea what level (if you can quantify such a thing) of compromise would be involved here?

M
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schaubild

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« Reply #28 on: December 17, 2009, 02:20:25 am »

Quote from: Murray Fredericks
Any idea what level (if you can quantify such a thing) of compromise would be involved here?

M


Not quantifiable, but when you compare them with modern designs on a 7 micron back (33/39MP), you'll see a big difference for sure.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2009, 09:51:16 am by schaubild »
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archivue

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Alpa max + TC - lens recommendations?
« Reply #29 on: December 17, 2009, 11:08:32 am »

Quote from: schaubild
Not quantifiable, but when you compare them with modern designs on a 7 micron back (33/39MP), you'll see a big difference for sure.


it depends on lenses... the apo sironar digital 90... is now called HR Digaron W and is an extremely good performer... the 35 non HR isn't as good, and they stopped producing it !
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schaubild

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« Reply #30 on: December 17, 2009, 11:11:52 am »

Quote from: archivue
it depends on lenses... the apo sironar digital 90... is now called HR Digaron W and is an extremely good performer... the 35 non HR isn't as good, and they stopped producing it !

The discussion was about this specific 55mm.

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CBarrett

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Alpa max + TC - lens recommendations?
« Reply #31 on: December 17, 2009, 11:55:06 am »

Quote from: archivue
it depends on lenses... the apo sironar digital 90... is now called HR Digaron W and is an extremely good performer... the 35 non HR isn't as good, and they stopped producing it !


I think I'm going to print a label that says "Semi-HR" and put it on my 55mm.  I think as the Apo-Sironar Digi series got longer in focal length they kept getting better.  The 55mm may have missed the HR cutoff mark, but I bet it was close.  Then again they didn't relable my 135mm to HR.... hmm.

And Dude... "The discussion was about this specific 55mm."  That's just rude, the discussion of this thread has actually been about multiple lenses.  Go back to bed and don't post till you're less grumpy.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2009, 11:57:54 am by CBarrett »
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archivue

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Alpa max + TC - lens recommendations?
« Reply #32 on: December 17, 2009, 12:19:40 pm »

Quote from: CBarrett
I think I'm going to print a label that says "Semi-HR" and put it on my 55mm.  I think as the Apo-Sironar Digi series got longer in focal length they kept getting better.  The 55mm may have missed the HR cutoff mark, but I bet it was close.


With an aptus 22, i don't see much differences between the 45 and the 55... but i did avoid the 35 because of his focus shift !

The 90 is really good at all magnifacation... even very close to the 120 digital macro in the macro range !
« Last Edit: December 17, 2009, 04:48:23 pm by archivue »
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archivue

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Alpa max + TC - lens recommendations?
« Reply #33 on: December 17, 2009, 12:22:54 pm »

Quote from: CBarrett
My 35 and 45 are both Apo-Sironar Digital.  I plan to swap those out for the 28mm Super Digitar (someday) and 40mm HR.  Then the lineup will be:

28mm   Schneider Super Digitar
40mm   Rodenstock HR Digaron-W
55mm   Rodenstock Apo-Sironar Digi
70mm   Rodenstock HR Digaron-W
90mm   Rodenstock HR Digaron-W
135mm Rodenstock Apo-Sironar Digi

I think that set will take pretty good care of me and the P65+.


Maybe, you should wait for the new 43, unless you wants to shoot wide open !
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CBarrett

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Alpa max + TC - lens recommendations?
« Reply #34 on: December 17, 2009, 12:47:03 pm »

Quote from: archivue
Maybe, you should wait for the new 43, unless you wants to shoot wide open !


Yeah, I'm considering that too.

Decisions, decisions...
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rainer_v

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Alpa max + TC - lens recommendations?
« Reply #35 on: December 17, 2009, 03:07:42 pm »

Quote from: CBarrett
I think I'm going to print a label that says "Semi-HR" and put it on my 55mm.  I think as the Apo-Sironar Digi series got longer in focal length they kept getting better.  The 55mm may have missed the HR cutoff mark, but I bet it was close.  Then again they didn't relable my 135mm to HR.... hmm.

And Dude... "The discussion was about this specific 55mm."  That's just rude, the discussion of this thread has actually been about multiple lenses.  Go back to bed and don't post till you're less grumpy.
the 55 is quite similar to the 45 in terms of sharpness and behavor if stopped down, at least the sample i had in my hands before exchanging it for the 60HR. i  think the largest difference between the "true" HR lenses and the other rodenstock line is that u can use the HRs without noticeable sharpness degradation even with open blades. the 55 as the 45 wants to be stopped down to f8 or even better to f11 than these both are great performers.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2009, 03:09:29 pm by rainer_v »
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archivue

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« Reply #36 on: December 17, 2009, 04:47:39 pm »

Quote from: rainer_v
the 55 as the 45 wants to be stopped down to f8 or even better to f11 than these both are great performers.
yes, same for the 35xl and it requires a perfect focus and alignement to be a stellar performer.
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LiamStrain

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Alpa max + TC - lens recommendations?
« Reply #37 on: December 17, 2009, 05:08:14 pm »

Quote from: archivue
yes, same for the 35xl and it requires a perfect focus and alignement to be a stellar performer.

I have a more general question.

Based off of statements like this and others - Is a slight misalignment with one of these lenses more apparent with a MFDB than a similar misalignment would have shown on 4x5 film?

Which is too ask - if I'm not currently willing to get the newest HR digital lenses, am I better off sticking with film from a resolution standpoint, than going to a MFDB and using my existing stable of lenses?

archivue

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Alpa max + TC - lens recommendations?
« Reply #38 on: December 17, 2009, 05:23:11 pm »

Quote from: LiamStrain
I have a more general question.

Based off of statements like this and others - Is a slight misalignment with one of these lenses more apparent with a MFDB than a similar misalignment would have shown on 4x5 film?

A 35XL equivalent for 4x5 is 90... the shorter the lens is, smaller is the tolerance !

But to be honest, i'm not shure i will shoot film anymore, we are facing new problems, but at the same time we have fantastic tools, and no lad and scans...
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CBarrett

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Alpa max + TC - lens recommendations?
« Reply #39 on: December 17, 2009, 05:42:57 pm »

Ugh, film... yeah the tolerances aren't as big a deal with the longer lenses, also film just doesn't have the same sharpness, so the problems aren't so obvious.  


But man, whether you shoot chrome or neg, nailing color balance is a pain and even then you get crossover... green shadows, magenta hilights not to mention that chromes have half the tonal range of a digi-back, requiring more lighting to attain shadow detail and forget about HDR or trying to align multiple exposures... aligning scans can be a nightmare.

I like color neg for my personal work, but for commercial work where the color palette has to be matched precisely?

The only thing I miss about 4x5 film is having a big ol' groundglass to look at.... but then my laptop screen is even bigger!

Digital... I dig it all
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