Profoto Pro8A compared to Broncolor ScoroA4S

[teddillard]

Not really sure where this thread should go- (there seems to be some lighting discussion here), but we just put together a comparison of these two high-end kits.  There's not a lot of lighting review going on, and the evaluations are tricky at best- we tried to apply a strategy of hands-on, real scenario shooting, rather than a lot of marketing hype that the manufacturers tend to get into.  

We're working on a DynaLite kit review, too, compared to Profoto Acutes and the D1 kits, so it'd be great to hear what you guys think of the story- methodology, conclusions, etc.  The power power kits are interesting, especially since nobody really seems to need that major 2400WS horsepower anymore.  

Take a look, let me know what you think:
http://www.h2hreviews.com/article/Lighting...-Scoro-A4S.html

[teddillard]

As for 'Round 1: Minimum Duration', would you please tell me what that duration is for Profoto Pro8 and what the output is at that duration?

Minimum output<>Minimum Duration.

That review is not good.  

Xin

Sorry, are you looking for the Guide Number at the minimum output and minimum duration settings?

[teddillard]

I have pro8. the shortest flash duration is at about 15Ws (3 stops): 1/8000 sec t0.1.

Yes, if you take a look at the spec battle page you can see those figures, claimed by the manufacturers-
http://www.h2hreviews.com/article/Lighting...pec-Battle.html

I think if you read the review a little more completely, you'll see we're looking at what these specs actually mean- the way the numbers are measured by the manufacturers, the so-called t0.1, t0.5 spec, is at the very least a subject of dispute.  We're trying to show what those specs actually look like in the photo at min. power as well as half-power.  

[dfarkas]

Not really sure where this thread should go- (there seems to be some lighting discussion here), but we just put together a comparison of these two high-end kits.  There's not a lot of lighting review going on, and the evaluations are tricky at best- we tried to apply a strategy of hands-on, real scenario shooting, rather than a lot of marketing hype that the manufacturers tend to get into.  

We're working on a DynaLite kit review, too, compared to Profoto Acutes and the D1 kits, so it'd be great to hear what you guys think of the story- methodology, conclusions, etc.  The power power kits are interesting, especially since nobody really seems to need that major 2400WS horsepower anymore.  

Take a look, let me know what you think:
http://www.h2hreviews.com/article/Lighting...-Scoro-A4S.html

Nice review. Thank you.

Too often we get wrapped up in camera vs. camera tests. It's refreshing to see some focus on lighting tools, especially at this level.

David

[julius0377]

That review is not good.

I think the review answers some valid questions. Perhaps not using expensive lab-testing equipment, the spinning disk solution to measuing duration (a most important and ofthen overlooked variable) is widely used and tells the tale.

[EricWHiss]

Ted,
That's one great, comprehensive review.  Many thanks for putting it together.  
Eric

[AlDoori]

nice test.

a few minor errors in the scoro a4s specs you posted:
t.o5 is 1/24o - 1/12ooo, you posted t.o1 numbers.

in european 24o v net, the mod light is 65o w per head

power control range is 1o f-stops

in addition to ir receiver, it has a built in RFS radio receiver for triggering and power setting etc

it can dim the mod light during recharge, if needed.

btw: from usb interface on, the table is messed up a bit.


in germany,
the 3 outlet 32oows scoro a4s, replacing up to 3 generators, costs € 77oo.-
the 2 outlet 24oows pro8a, replacing 2 generators, costs 84oo.-


the equal output of both generators seems strange,
i might run a test myself.

[teddillard]

nice test.

a few minor errors in the scoro a4s specs you posted:
t.o5 is 1/24o - 1/12ooo, you posted t.o1 numbers.

in european 24o v net, the mod light is 65o w per head

power control range is 1o f-stops

in addition to ir receiver, it has a built in RFS radio receiver for triggering and power setting etc

it can dim the mod light during recharge, if needed.

btw: from usb interface on, the table is messed up a bit.


in germany,
the 3 outlet 32oows scoro a4s, replacing up to 3 generators, costs € 77oo.-
the 2 outlet 24oows pro8a, replacing 2 generators, costs 84oo.-


the equal output of both generators seems strange,
i might run a test myself.

hmmm.  Checking those specs...  thanks!  For the record, they all came from the Broncolor published specs.  

Yes, the equal output was a surprise to us too, leading to doublechecking the results.

[AlDoori]

scoro a4s data sheet
http://www.bron.ch/_data/bc_do_ds_scoroa4s_en.pdf
scoro a4s manual
http://www.bron.ch/_data/bc_do_oi_scoro_en.pdf

[mcfoto]

Not really sure where this thread should go- (there seems to be some lighting discussion here), but we just put together a comparison of these two high-end kits.  There's not a lot of lighting review going on, and the evaluations are tricky at best- we tried to apply a strategy of hands-on, real scenario shooting, rather than a lot of marketing hype that the manufacturers tend to get into.  

We're working on a DynaLite kit review, too, compared to Profoto Acutes and the D1 kits, so it'd be great to hear what you guys think of the story- methodology, conclusions, etc.  The power power kits are interesting, especially since nobody really seems to need that major 2400WS horsepower anymore.  

Take a look, let me know what you think:
http://www.h2hreviews.com/article/Lighting...-Scoro-A4S.html

Hi
Thanks for your in depth review of these two packs. I have attached a shoot we did using these same packs. as a result we now rent the Profoto 8 Air when we are doing movement and prefer the light quality from Profoto. We did a shoot recently with a model running towards the camera with 2 packs & 4 heads with the watt second set beyween 60-100 for each head and we froze the action. I found it interesting that the Bron has the same output as the Profoto even though it is a 3200 ws pack.
Thanks Denis

[Conner999]

OP

Nicely done and thank you.
Given the $$ involved, importance  and the long-term 'investment' we as photogs make/need to make in lighting hardware, it's an area of photography that is woefully 'under-tested'. Need to see more of these shoot-outs vs. 'yawn, yet another more MP, ISO___000 , depreciates like a rock off a cliff' pixel-peeping-in-a-coal-mine camera test.

Denis - great article and comments. Thanks. Would love to hear more on your thoughts of the two units used.

[mcfoto]

OP

Nicely done and thank you.
Given the $$ involved, importance  and the long-term 'investment' we as photogs make/need to make in lighting hardware, it's an area of photography that is woefully 'under-tested'. Need to see more of these shoot-outs vs. 'yawn, yet another more MP, ISO___000 , depreciates like a rock off a cliff' pixel-peeping-in-a-coal-mine camera test.

Denis - great article and comments. Thanks. Would love to hear more on your thoughts of the two units used.

Hi
Currently we own the Profoto acute 1200 with 3 heads plus 2 compacts since 2002. When we lived in NY I made the decision with Profoto over Bron due to the fact that all the studios in NYC have Profoto for rent. So on jobs if we needed extra equipment we could rent the Pro 6 packs & heads since we had speed rings plus other light fittings. I guess it was plug & play with one system. Being back in Sydney we have rented a lot of Bron equipment so I have become more familiar with them & we have mixed both Profoto along with Bron on many shoots. This test shoot between the Scoro & the 8 Air was a real eye opener for us. Not only was the flash duration similar ( we always rented Bron for that purpose prior to this test ), we both felt the light quality was better for our style with the Profoto. So we have been renting the Pro 8 air if we need to freeze action in the studio. For the test we used the same light shapers & found the light from the Bron was too harsh while the Profoto has sort of a glow almost painterly feel to it.
Cheers Denis

[Conner999]

Denis - thank you.
Just started the move away from Eli into Profoto myself starting with the AcuteB 600 with a 1200 kit on the horizon and I think it will be the start of a happy relationship.

[mcfoto]

Denis - thank you.
Just started the move away from Eli into Profoto myself starting with the AcuteB 600 with a 1200 kit on the horizon and I think it will be the start of a happy relationship.

Hi We have been renting the D4 2400 packs as they work with acute heads, not good for flash duration but very easy to use with individual power control.
Denis

[teddillard]

That is what I mean, you should have not said 'Round 1: Minimum Duration', because you had not set each powerpack at their shortest flash duration. You review is actually 'Round 1: Minimum Output'.

Minimum output<>Minimum Duration.

Again, it is not a precise review.

Xin

Ah, I see.  Actually, no, the tests were at Minimum Duration, just as we said (precisely).  The power setting on the Profoto, for minimum duration is 3.1, which I mention later in the review.  

We did not say, or intend, minimum power since that is not the minimum duration setting.

[K.C.]

For the test we used the same light shapers & found the light from the Bron was too harsh while the Profoto has sort of a glow almost painterly feel to it.

Clear glass dome over flash tube on one head and a frosted white dome over the flash tube on the other head. They produce different light qualities.

Put an old Comet CX head which has a frosted white glass dome over the tube into your comparison and you'll find it produces nearly identical light to the PF.

[K.C.]

I just glanced through the review and I'm wondering why you didn't test any twin tube heads ?

They're typically known to have the shortest flash duration.

[mcfoto]

It is better to make it clear at the very beginning. See the context: Round 2: mid output. then it make the readers take it for granted that minimum duration is at the minimum output.

from my experience, the 99% photographers here in China do not know  what the minimum duration is (most of them think it stands for the shortest cycling time) not mention where the minimum duration is.

Another wrong understanding towards the Broncolor powerpack is: You can set the flash duration at any output on the powerpack's menu. Funny!

delete

[teddillard]

It is better to make it clear at the very beginning. See the context: Round 2: mid output. then it make the readers take it for granted that minimum duration is at the minimum output.

Not a bad idea...  we can add a little note to that section, thanks!

[teddillard]

I just glanced through the review and I'm wondering why you didn't test any twin tube heads ?

They're typically known to have the shortest flash duration.

Interesting point- neither of the manufacturers saw fit to mention the multi-tube heads in the testing discussions.  Since duration was a critical issue, I can only assume that it didn't produce the shortest duration, but that's only a guess.  I'll follow up and post the answers.  

For the record, I'd also love to do a complete system survey too- heads, reflectors, remotes, all that stuff.  Not enough hours in the day!