flash on location

[michele]

Hi everybody,
i was looking in the past thread but i didn't find the answer to my question... I need a way to power up my flashes in location. I own 1 profoto 7a 1200w and 2 profoto compact 600w. So 2400w of power that i need. I don't want to buy a battery pack due to the high price and also because the solution i have in my mind attracts me more.
I want to use this flash feeder from elektrona http://www.elektrona.si/flash_feeders.htm It can go up to 3200w flash power and more (as they say). I can also connect a monitor, laptop and everything i need. I know that for my very expensive flash i need a pure sinewave power and this flash feeder i guess is the answer. Now, the problem is the battery life. I can expand it with optional battery but it's going to be expensive and also massive things to take around. So, i want to use the feeder while charging it with a gas generator... So i will have a flash going on with pure sinewave energy caming from a battery that is feeded by a gas generator (perhaps a little honda with 1000w capability). I asked if this dreaming idea is doable to the elektrona team, but no answer...
Does anybody have experience of it? Suggestions? Do you think that the honda generators can power up a pack without damaging it?
Plese help me!

[James Godman]

I haven't tried the setup you are planning, so please let us know if it works!  I have run Profoto Acutes directly from a Honda generator with no problems.  Alternately, you could check out this battery pack from Innovatronix:  http://bit.ly/s1NoO

Good luck!

[UlfKrentz]

Hi everybody,
i was looking in the past thread but i didn't find the answer to my question... I need a way to power up my flashes in location. I own 1 profoto 7a 1200w and 2 profoto compact 600w. So 2400w of power that i need. I don't want to buy a battery pack due to the high price and also because the solution i have in my mind attracts me more.
I want to use this flash feeder from elektrona http://www.elektrona.si/flash_feeders.htm It can go up to 3200w flash power and more (as they say). I can also connect a monitor, laptop and everything i need. I know that for my very expensive flash i need a pure sinewave power and this flash feeder i guess is the answer. Now, the problem is the battery life. I can expand it with optional battery but it's going to be expensive and also massive things to take around. So, i want to use the feeder while charging it with a gas generator... So i will have a flash going on with pure sinewave energy caming from a battery that is feeded by a gas generator (perhaps a little honda with 1000w capability). I asked if this dreaming idea is doable to the elektrona team, but no answer...
Does anybody have experience of it? Suggestions? Do you think that the honda generators can power up a pack without damaging it?
Plese help me!

Hi Michele,

we use a lot of flash power on location and need fast recycle times, too. We don´t own battery powered packs, because we like the full control, speed and comfort of the "Big packs" also on location.

The quick charging is the common problem that has to be solved as the packs suck a lot of power when recycling. We use the Honda inverters Type 20i, they are working perfect with all our equipment. They can still easily be moved around by a single person and they can be paralleled with a special cable, so you get the double power, which is sufficient to run all our other stuff. They don´t consume a lot of fuel and are quiet silent. We enjoy working with them.

What you descibe with the flashfeeder is something like an uninteruptable powersupply. We have that kind of thing build in a roadcase, MAN THAT CASE IS HEAVY, an still it is not able to feed a hole working day, even if it is powered by the gas generators the batteries are down in the afternoon. But sometimes you don´t want or are not allowed to use gas generators, so this is a perfect workaround - no noise and no exhausts.
You can also use a pure sinewave camping type inverter and use it with your car battery or with some 12V batteries. We have that kind of thing for small, quick jobs.
In general you should buy a unit that is well build and will provide at least 3000VA. I am sorry, I don´t know the elektrona stuff so I can´t comment on it, but from the specs shown on their page I doubt it will be strong enough for your plans. Even if it should work you will need additional batteries, "quick" charging of 3 hours for a single battery will not be able to keep the battery alive, but you still have the possibility to connect the unit to external batteries like your car. There is a charging output for batteries on that honda gas generators, it may help if you connect it directly to the battery.

Cheers, Ulf

[Ken Bennett]

Not sure if this will do what you need, but it's a sweet setup:

http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/content_p...d=7-10043-10273

[Graham Mitchell]

I want to use this flash feeder from elektrona http://www.elektrona.si/flash_feeders.htm

You could get that, or just make your own (which is what I did).

[michele]

Thanks to all, elektrona answered me and they say that i can charge he battery case with the gas generator while using it. But, as UlFKrentz said, it's fast to give the energy but slow to take it from the gas generator. So i will run out of energy faster then the battery charges itself... Frankly i don't like the fact of pollution and a gas generator is not my first solution, but it seems to be the only practical one!
So UlFKrentz you didn't never experienced problems with those beautiful Honda with very delicate electronic devices? I'm going to use mostly my 7a 1200w pack do you think that the 20i is enough?
Again, many thanks!!!

[Graham Mitchell]

Frankly i don't like the fact of pollution and a gas generator is not my first solution, but it seems to be the only practical one!

How did you reach that conclusion? I run Profoto packs on location from battery power and a pure sinewave inverter.

[Dick Roadnight]

Hi everybody,
i was looking in the past thread but i didn't find the answer to my question... I need a way to power up my flashes in location. I own 1 profoto 7a 1200w and 2 profoto compact 600w. So 2400w of power that i need. I don't want to buy a battery pack due to the high price and also because the solution i have in my mind attracts me more.
I want to use this flash feeder from elektrona http://www.elektrona.si/flash_feeders.htm It can go up to 3200w flash power and more (as they say). I can also connect a monitor, laptop and everything i need. I know that for my very expensive flash i need a pure sinewave power and this flash feeder i guess is the answer. Now, the problem is the battery life. I can expand it with optional battery but it's going to be expensive and also massive things to take around. So, i want to use the feeder while charging it with a gas generator... So i will have a flash going on with pure sinewave energy caming from a battery that is feeded by a gas generator (perhaps a little honda with 1000w capability). I asked if this dreaming idea is doable to the elektrona team, but no answer...
Does anybody have experience of it? Suggestions? Do you think that the honda generators can power up a pack without damaging it?
Plese help me!

I have 4 Metzs, and intend to use them in a "painting with flash light" mode with 2 pocket wizards e.g. for the inside of a cathedral, combining a few shots per bay.
I have a big UPS... but not big enough for may studio flash.
I have a Honda 6000 generator (about 5kw) which I hope would cope with my 4 Elinchrome 1.500s

[PatrikR]

You could get that, or just make your own (which is what I did).

The product seems nice but I can't understand why these manufacturers can't update their products to LithiumPolymer power. Ridiculous to haul around heavy and slow lead batteries when much better technology is available.

By changing the battery to Lipos you could get over 4 times the battery duration for the same weight.

Flashfeeder has one 24Volt 7Ah battery inside weighing about 4.6 kg.

Six 6 cell Lipo batteries connected in parallel would give you 22.2 Volts and 30Ah at about the same battery weight.

I would take on Grahams suggestion to build my own since the "current" stuff is obsolete battery wise.

Patrik

[Carsten W]

The product seems nice but I can't understand why these manufacturers can't update their products to LithiumPolymer power. Ridiculous to haul around heavy and slow lead batteries when much better technology is available.

Would this affect battery life in cycles or years, or resistance to various temperatures?

[UlfKrentz]

Thanks to all, elektrona answered me and they say that i can charge he battery case with the gas generator while using it. But, as UlFKrentz said, it's fast to give the energy but slow to take it from the gas generator. So i will run out of energy faster then the battery charges itself... Frankly i don't like the fact of pollution and a gas generator is not my first solution, but it seems to be the only practical one!
So UlFKrentz you didn't never experienced problems with those beautiful Honda with very delicate electronic devices? I'm going to use mostly my 7a 1200w pack do you think that the 20i is enough?
Again, many thanks!!!

Hi Michele,

we don´t own Profoto gear, so I cannot state if it will work, but I don´t see a reason why it shouldn´t. That Honda 20i is working very well with all equipment we ever tried, we use Bron Grafit and Scoro packs with it. Like I posted before there are also other solutions that are working, including battery powered systems.
You may ask at some rental houses if they have experience with Profoto packs on gas generators or could somebody else here please state something?

In general here are my thoughts, based on my experience:

1. Buy cable. Even if you have 300m of distance it´s still the cheapest and most reliable solution.

2. Use gas generators. Working fine, don´t need much attention. We prefered two of the smaller 20i paralleled. You can carry them alone, and in case one unit should fail (which didn´t happen until now) you have a second one and could go on working somehow.

3. Use battery powered systems where you can´t use gas generators or for small (short) jobs.

All battery powered systems are heavy, need quiet a lot attention, you have to keep your batteries charged and stored carefully. You only have the energy that is stored in your batteries, even less, when it is very cold outside, so you will have more batteries than you really need or run out of power on one of your next jobs. You need to replace batteries from time to time. So regarding pollution, I really don´t know what´s worse. Batteries have to be manufactured, charged even when not in use and at their end of life you have a harmful piece of junk, LithiumPolymer power doesn´t help here either. The Honda generators are not very noisy and I am still astonished, we never had to refuel them on a job. So put them a bit apart, they don´t need to be placed next to the model.

Patrik stated the flashfeeder has a 24V Battery, so forget my advice to connect it to your car (unless you a driving a 24V powered truck) and I am not sure about the battery charger output of the Hondas as well.

Cheers, Ulf

[Jonathan Wienke]

I've used gas generators to power strobes and computers while on location, and they worked great. The generators have have sine-wave output, so the only real concern is matching the generator size to the maximum current draw of your lighting. To get a rough idea, divide the watt-seconds of each flash by the full-power recycle time, plus the draw of the modeling lights. If you have 4 1600WS strobes that takes 2 seconds to recycle, and  each has a 150-watt modeling light, the peak load should be:

(1600 / 2) + 150 = 950 Watts per strobe, x 4 strobes = 3800 watts total

You'll also need to add another 20% to this figure to account for inefficiencies in the strobe power supplies and to avoid drawing absolute maximum load. For a setup like this, you'd probably want a 5000 watt or larger generator.

You'll also want a long, heavy-duty extension cord (12-gauge preferred) so that you don't have to have the generator right next to you while working. Noise and exhaust fumes can be distracting and unhealthy, especially in enclosed or poorly ventilated spaces.

[UlfKrentz]

I've used gas generators to power strobes and computers while on location, and they worked great. The generators have have sine-wave output, so the only real concern is matching the generator size to the maximum current draw of your lighting. To get a rough idea, divide the watt-seconds of each flash by the full-power recycle time, plus the draw of the modeling lights. If you have 4 1600WS strobes that takes 2 seconds to recycle, and  each has a 150-watt modeling light, the peak load should be:

(1600 / 2) + 150 = 950 Watts per strobe, x 4 strobes = 3800 watts total

You'll also need to add another 20% to this figure to account for inefficiencies in the strobe power supplies and to avoid drawing absolute maximum load. For a setup like this, you'd probably want a 5000 watt or larger generator.

You'll also want a long, heavy-duty extension cord (12-gauge preferred) so that you don't have to have the generator right next to you while working. Noise and exhaust fumes can be distracting and unhealthy, especially in enclosed or poorly ventilated spaces.

I agree, but it is important that you use a gas generator that is voltage stabilised. Strobe units are not an easy load. In standby mode they consume nearly nothing (+ modeling lights) and some units can almost be like a short circuit when they start recycling.

Cheers, Ulf

[Dick Roadnight]

I've used gas generators to power strobes and computers while on location, and they worked great. The generators have have sine-wave output, so the only real concern is matching the generator size to the maximum current draw of your lighting. To get a rough idea, divide the watt-seconds of each flash by the full-power recycle time, plus the draw of the modeling lights. If you have 4 1600WS strobes that takes 2 seconds to recycle, and  each has a 150-watt modeling light, the peak load should be:

(1600 / 2) + 150 = 950 Watts per strobe, x 4 strobes = 3800 watts total

You'll also need to add another 20% to this figure to account for inefficiencies in the strobe power supplies and to avoid drawing absolute maximum load. For a setup like this, you'd probably want a 5000 watt or larger generator.

You'll also want a long, heavy-duty extension cord (12-gauge preferred) so that you don't have to have the generator right next to you while working. Noise and exhaust fumes can be distracting and unhealthy, especially in enclosed or poorly ventilated spaces.

This is almost exactly what I have got, and I have a 50m 20amp 240 volt a/c extension lead.

I might use a laptop or a UPS to protect the computer from any transients in the voltage when the flashes fire.

[Jonathan Wienke]

I agree, but it is important that you use a gas generator that is voltage stabilised. Strobe units are not an easy load. In standby mode they consume nearly nothing (+ modeling lights) and some units can almost be like a short circuit when they start recycling.

Most portable generators do have voltage regulation. The formula I gave calculates the peak load during recycling; make sure your generator can handle this load.

I might use a laptop or a UPS to protect the computer from any transients in the voltage when the flashes fire.

The UPS is an excellent point; you don't want your computer to die in the middle of a shoot because the generator stalled or someone accidentally unplugged the generator power cable. And even if you're using a laptop, the surge protection is good to have.

[michele]

Thanks a lot, i'm thinking about that little honda 20i... it looks pretty nice

[Bernhard]

Thanks a lot, i'm thinking about that little honda 20i... it looks pretty nice

just to be secure with your Pro 7a you should use the progas2 adapter from profoto (if using 230V), the new 8a and D1 don't need this adapter

http://www.profoto.se/products/profoto/acc...adapter/progas2

I know you're not buying into battery pack but if you do i use the Universal power adapter to my Pro B2, either plugged to a 20i or to my cars power inverter.  I use 3 of those and never run out of power

http://www.profoto.se/products/profoto/acc...l-power-adapter