Topic: Raw workflow for novice? (Read 8083 times)

KirbyKrieger · « **on:** December 03, 2009, 11:59:21 am »

Hi. I am just starting to use cameras and raw processors. I was planning on purchasing some of the raw processing guides from L-L. They require (and teach) CS4. I sense from Web perusing that Capture One has some enthusiastic users. Are there compelling reasons for going straight to Capture One or would the novice be better advised first using CS4 to explore the lay of the land? I am comfortable with Macs. Currently I shoot raw+JPEG with Panasonic cameras then triage the JPEGs in iPhoto and do minimal processing on those I want to share now. I dump all the raw files into a folder for later raw processing*. Price is a concern, but I do have CS1 which is still eligible for the CS4 upgrade price.

As always, thanks for sharing your wisdom.

(* [edit to add:] The L-L guide to Asset Management (using Lightroom) is already in my shopping basket.)

Jeremy Payne · « **Reply #1 on:** December 03, 2009, 12:45:06 pm »

I'd start with Lightroom and only add CS4 if you find Lightroom doesn't meet your needs.

feppe · « **Reply #2 on:** December 03, 2009, 12:47:35 pm »

Quote from: Jeremy Payne

I'd start with Lightroom and only add CS4 if you find Lightroom doesn't meet your needs.

Seconded. You might find that LL works for 90-100% of your image processing needs, and the rest will probably be covered by your CS1.

Alex MacPherson · « **Reply #3 on:** December 03, 2009, 01:01:52 pm »

Capture One is not for beginners. I would recommend you download the free beta of Lightroom 3 that will be functional until roughly
April 2010.

deejjjaaaa · « **Reply #4 on:** December 03, 2009, 01:03:23 pm »

Quote from: KirbyKrieger

Currently I shoot raw+JPEG with Panasonic cameras

so you did not like SilkyPix UI then

deejjjaaaa · « **Reply #5 on:** December 03, 2009, 01:06:43 pm »

Quote from: KirbyKrieger

I was planning on purchasing some of the raw processing guides from L-L. They require (and teach) CS4.

in terms of "raw processing" they teach ACR (Adobe Camera Raw "plugin"), it is quite irrelevant for Photoshop itself from where the result of your raw conversion came - be it LR, ACR, C1 or something else... the only difference is that ACR is more nicely integrated w/ Photoshop.

Ed Blagden · « **Reply #6 on:** December 03, 2009, 01:24:30 pm »

Quote from: Jeremy Payne

I'd start with Lightroom and only add CS4 if you find Lightroom doesn't meet your needs.

Thirded (is that a word?) LR2.5 does 95% of what most photographers want, and I'm sure v3 will do even more. I came to digital processing rather late in the curve, just 2 years ago, and went straight to Lightroom and am happy I did. It is so good I have never bothered to learn Photoshop - the learning curve is steep, so I'm told, and quite honestly LR does everything I need.

I suggest you buy and download Michael and Schewe's video guide to LR2 - this is a really good walkthrough for the software, and will give you an idea of its capabilities.

Ed

KirbyKrieger · « **Reply #7 on:** December 03, 2009, 01:33:46 pm »

Quote from: deja

so you did not like SilkyPix UI then

Not.at.all (though I've read one gets excellent results). From the rec's in this thread I'm sure I'll go with LR (and never even launch Silkypix again, having stubbed my brow on it once already).

I've used the trial version of CS4 and the trial version of PSE (I'm pretty sure they use the same raw processor, Adobe RAW (I think), a/k/a "ACR" (I think)). I've downloaded but not yet installed LR.

KirbyKrieger · « **Reply #8 on:** December 03, 2009, 01:43:44 pm »

Quote from: deja

in terms of "raw processing" they teach ACR (Adobe Camera Raw "plugin"), it is quite irrelevant for Photoshop itself from where the result of your raw conversion came - be it LR, ACR, C1 or something else... the only difference is that ACR is more nicely integrated w/ Photoshop.

Thanks deja. I'm still unclear on the Adobe taxonomy: is the raw processor, ACR, including as part of PSE and as part of LR and as part of CS4/PS?

Does that mean that I can get the full use of "L-L Guide to Raw Processing in Photoshop CS3&4" without a copy of CS3 or CS4 (iow, that the raw processing covered happens in ACR which comes with LR)?

I realize that's a sales question for either Adobe or L-L -- perhaps someone here can comment .

deejjjaaaa · « **Reply #9 on:** December 03, 2009, 01:55:15 pm »

Quote from: KirbyKrieger

Thanks deja. I'm still unclear on the Adobe taxonomy: is the raw processor, ACR, including as part of PSE and as part of LR and as part of CS4/PS?

LR and ACR share the code - but while ACR is a "separate" component included in Photoshop and can be replaced (updated) w/o replacing/updating Photoshop (note that Adobe will block using new versions of ACR w/ old versions of PS), the LR has that thing (raw conversion code) integrated tightly inside as an integral part of the program so that you are updating LR itself to gain for example new cameras support... LR is ACR + castrated PS (or PSE) + DAM fused into all-in-one solution intended to grab the market by locking people into its workflow, etc.

Quote from: KirbyKrieger

Does that mean that I can get the full use of "L-L Guide to Raw Processing in Photoshop CS3&4" without a copy of CS3 or CS4 (iow, that the raw processing covered happens in ACR which comes with LR)?

ACR is written to function only in tandem with either PS or PSE or Bridge... but when people are saying "Raw Processing in Photoshop" they actually are talking about a 2 stage process = 1) raw conversion using ACR (and this can be actually replaced by another raw converter) and 2) further postprocessing in PS... some things can be done only in ACR, some only in PS and some can be done in both (the question then stands where to do it better) - that depends on your workflow, technique, etc

KirbyKrieger · « **Reply #10 on:** December 03, 2009, 01:58:44 pm »

Quote from: Ed B

Thirded (is that a word?) LR2.5 does 95% of what most photographers want, and I'm sure v3 will do even more. ...
I suggest you buy and download Michael and Schewe's video guide to LR2 - this is a really good walkthrough for the software, and will give you an idea of its capabilities.

Thanks Ed and deja and Jeremy and feppe and Easy Style -- Lightroom it is -- and that's all I need to sort, process, edit, and organize my photos?

My workflow would then be:
•••Learn about shooting••Shoot••Upload to Lightroom•triage (LR)• process raw files (ACR, part of LR)•correct/enhance images (LR)•sort and store (LR)••Apply what I learned•••. Rinse, lather, repeat. Yes?

Kirby, ready to dive in.

deejjjaaaa · « **Reply #11 on:** December 03, 2009, 02:04:51 pm »

Quote from: KirbyKrieger

From the rec's in this thread I'm sure I'll go with LR

then do not buy LR now - instead grab the free LR3 Beta - it is a significant quality improvement over v2.x and free to use for a while as was mentioned above in the thread.

DarkPenguin · « **Reply #12 on:** December 03, 2009, 02:14:44 pm »

Definitely get the beta.

Paul Sumi · « **Reply #13 on:** December 03, 2009, 07:11:34 pm »

Quote from: KirbyKrieger

I sense from Web perusing that Capture One has some enthusiastic users.

Yes, indeed. I've used C1 for at least 5 years in conjunction with PhotoShop. The workflow works well for me and I prefer its color rendition.

HOWEVER - I agree with others that LightRoom is probably the better entry point for someone new to RAW processing and is a better all-in-one solution.

Paul

Ed Blagden · « **Reply #14 on:** December 04, 2009, 01:54:32 am »

Quote from: KirbyKrieger

Thanks Ed and deja and Jeremy and feppe and Easy Style -- Lightroom it is -- and that's all I need to sort, process, edit, and organize my photos?

My workflow would then be:
•••Learn about shooting••Shoot••Upload to Lightroom•triage (LR)• process raw files (ACR, part of LR)•correct/enhance images (LR)•sort and store (LR)••Apply what I learned•••. Rinse, lather, repeat. Yes?

Kirby, ready to dive in.

You got it. If you have a printer you will also see that LR has a great printing module, and you can also use the software to create web pages.

Have fun.

NikoJorj · « **Reply #15 on:** December 04, 2009, 12:29:33 pm »

Quote from: DarkPenguin

Definitely get the beta.

One more vote for LR3b : I didn't heard of any problem so far, it's superior to LR2 in many aspects, and it will very probably cost less to buy final LR3 then, than to buy LR2 and then upgrade to LR3...

KirbyKrieger · « **Reply #16 on:** December 04, 2009, 04:15:16 pm »

Quote from: NikoJorj

it will very probably cost less to buy final LR3 then, than to buy LR2 and then upgrade to LR3...

LR2 keeps showing up on Amazon (from 3rd party vendors) for c. $160. I'm guessing (!) that LR3 is going to be no less expensive than LR2 ($300 msrp), and that the upgrade will likely be the same as the last upgrade (c. $100). So as I see it, there is no reason not to use LR3b now (free and better), but there might be a reason to buy LR2 in order to upgrade in the spring (a long time away ... ).

Thanks to everyone for the LR3b rec's. Downloaded and installed yesterday. My workflow right now is a pile of scree. At least I can imagine being on top of it.

NikoJorj · « **Reply #17 on:** December 05, 2009, 08:13:01 am »

Quote from: KirbyKrieger

LR2 keeps showing up on Amazon (from 3rd party vendors) for c. $160.

Oh, sorry, I forgot I'm in France where 160$ equals 300€...

Author Topic: Raw workflow for novice? (Read 8083 times)

Jeremy Payne

DarkPenguin