Leica S2 review

[rickk]

Thanks for another informative and entertaining review of fantasy (for most of us) gear.

Just out of curiosity, what were your impressions of the "look" of the prints from S2 files as compared to those from your M9?
For a given level of fine detail in some class of subject matter (and assorted other field-leveling qualifications), at what size
of print was there a clear advantage to the S2 over the M9 files?

My apologies if these matters were mentioned in your review but overlooked in a quick read.

Regards,

Rick

[BernardLanguillier]

Thanks for another informative and entertaining review of fantasy (for most of us) gear.

Thanks indeed.

The one figure that surprised me, and disapointed me a lot to be clear, is the battery life.

Do you confirm 125 images from one charge at 0C? Extrapolating along typical lines, this would mean at most 60 images at -10C, which means practically unusable for winter landscape shooting. It would typically mean two ot 3 stitched images per battery charge, that reminds me of my Mamiya ZD days.

Do you confirm the 125 images per charge Michael?

Thanks.

Cheers,
Bernard

[dfarkas]

Thanks indeed.

The one figure that surprised me, and disapointed me a lot to be clear, is the battery life.

Do you confirm 125 images from one charge at 0C? Extrapolating along typical lines, this would mean at most 60 images at -10C, which means practically unusable for winter landscape shooting. It would typically mean two ot 3 stitched images per battery charge, that reminds me of my Mamiya ZD days.

Do you confirm the 125 images per charge Michael?

Thanks.

Cheers,
Bernard

Bernard,

While I didn't test 0 deg C (how could I in Miami?), we held an S2 studio shoot last weekend. The S2 was powered on continuously for 6 hours straight and the participants shot a total of 700+ images. The battery was still showing 50% charge.

Even on the pre-production camera with very early firmware I shot in August, I got more than 600 shots on one battery over a two day period. The latest firmware gives almost a 50% improvement in battery life by using better power management.

So, in my experience with the camera at room temp, you could expect 1000 shots per charge. Again, I don't know how this will translate to extreme cold weather performance.

Michael, I am also very curious about the 125 shot per battery comment. Looking forward to your insights.

David

[BernardLanguillier]

Bernard,

While I didn't test 0 deg C (how could I in Miami?), we held an S2 studio shoot last weekend. The S2 was powered on continuously for 6 hours straight and the participants shot a total of 700+ images. The battery was still showing 50% charge.

Even on the pre-production camera with very early firmware I shot in August, I got more than 600 shots on one battery over a two day period. The latest firmware gives almost a 50% improvement in battery life by using better power management.

Those figures would be much more reasonnable indeed.

Cheers,
Bernard

[wolfnowl]

While I didn't test 0 deg C (how could I in Miami?)

Walk-in freezer?    

Then again, I don't imagine many people in Miami would have clothes to spend several hours in a freezer!

Mike.

[bcooter]

Thanks for another informative and entertaining review of fantasy (for most of us) gear.

With all due respect there are a few things that kinda throw me.

1.  Backups. Medium format or 35, unless you have two of everything and that includes backs, bodies and lenses, there is risk, unless your working in a studio or around the corner from a rental supply that has everything you own or could use.
So bottom line on backup is carrying a 35mm backup system next to a Leica, Phase or Blad, won't be any difference in size, weight (though obviously costs) and will give you more options.  As far as film as a backup, your talking about carrying multiple backs, traveling through x-rays with film, having
to ship film for processing and put into a digital realm and I know of no client in today's world that would find film as an acceptable alternative on a high production shoot.

2.  Tethering.  Unless something is done for buffer speed and size (same with shooting to cards) the S-2 just can't tether or clear the buffer fast enough for serious work, but I guess that's down to personal preference.

3.  No right angle grip.  Makes no sense and not just with Leica but all "medium" format.

4.  Color.  I've yet to see an S-2 sample where the faces weren't orange or slightly orange.   Orange is not a good look for skin tones, even in Miami.

5.  ISO.  Now this one stumps me, especially in this review because the 640 iso looks very rough (like reshoot the job rough)  on the building samples, even worse on this link and yes 640 is a used iso even in studio.

http://www.dpreview.com/gallery/leicas2_samples/  (move to the full length 640 iso sample).

6. Lens availability.  It's not fair that all expensive medium format is painted with the same brush, (well maybe it is), but you just can't honestly drop this kind of money on a promise because specialty camera companies have broken those promises and delivery times in such a regular manner, that
no one could believe it unless they get something in writing that says purchase refunded in full if we don't meet delivery times.  I don't think any company will write that clause.

7.  Detail.  Now I know this will send the medium format crown into an uproar but I don't get this uber detail thing that is always mentioned by any article, post or press release that revolves around medium format.  I'm not saying the world should be soft and blurry, but you show me a shot of over lit, over sharp face fuzz and I'll show you an art director that says . . . hmm "looks like digital to me".  I've just finished multiple campaigns with a dslr, shooting 4 subjects horizontal full length and can see the eyelashes and every strand of hair.  In almost any scenario I can imagine that is enough detail and even if I thought the 1ds3's just were not enough fire power, I'd love to see the same image same crop with my ghetto contax and P30+ next to this S2 or just about any two generation old medium format camera.  I'll bet you dollars to donuts it would take a microscope to see the difference and the costs differential, especially on the glutted used market is about 4 to 1.

8.  Taxes. Don't the Europeans have tax write offs.  Even if I was so inclined to spend the money on this camera or even two of them,  they won't be out until Jan. at the earliest.  No write off until 2011.

9.  2011.    By 2011 don't you think that Canon, Nikon or Pentax is going to have a 30+ megapixel camera out by then and we know it won't have the bling factor of a Lecia but it won't require a black card either.


10.  Feels Good in the hand.  I hate to bring this up but for this kind of money I can introduce you to a lot of things in this world that feel good to the touch.*

IMO

BC  *Bill Clinton

[rickk]

In David Farkas' detailed review (http://dfarkas.blogspot.com/), there was the intriguing observation: "The reality is that the S2 files don't look anything like M8, DMR, or M9 files on a per-pixel level. They look much, much better. While the M9 is a really great image maker, the S2 blows it away with regards to image quality. I don't mean that the S2 just has twice as many pixels as the M9. I mean to say that if you took an 18 MP crop from the S2 it would put the full capture of an M9 to shame. Yes, really."

So, for David, Michael, or any other lucky soul who has had the opportunity to study prints from both cameras,
at what size print is there an obvious advantage (criteria of your choice) of the S2 over the M9?

Regards,

Rick

[michael]

A couple of quick observations.

The battery use that I had may not be typical. I might have had a bad battery.

There is a vertical grip coming in a few months. I saw a sample in Germany in August. I would guess it isn't too far off.

The question of the "look" of the M9 vs the S2, is impossible to answer, at least by me. Mystical properties that others may be able to see but I can't aside, I'd say that the resolution advantage of the S2 will be seen starting at about print sizes of 16X20" and up. But, I've made 24 X 30" prints from the M9 that are stellar. That simply means that the S2 would be able to produce 30X40" prints of excellent sharpness and clarity.

Lot's of variables, including the look of the particular image, the light, contrast, viewing distance, etc.

Michael

[rickk]

The question of the "look" of the M9 vs the S2, is impossible to answer, at least by me. Mystical properties that others may be able to see but I can't aside, I'd say that the resolution advantage of the S2 will be seen starting at about print sizes of 16X20" and up. But, I've made 24 X 30" prints from the M9 that are stellar. That simply means that the S2 would be able to produce 30X40" prints of excellent sharpness and clarity.

Lot's of variables, including the look of the particular image, the light, contrast, viewing distance, etc.

Michael

Thanks for those observations. Insights about what different gear options are capable of with respect to prints are always appreciated.
Glad to hear that you are making some fine prints from the M9.

Regards,

Rick

[image66]

I'm not sure I follow the logic on the hand-wringing about equipment backups.  Here's why:

1. Rental houses.  A large percentage of these high-end cameras are rented for a shoot. If you want an on-site backup you rent twice the gear, otherwise, the rental house will provide a replacement camera as quickly as they can drive over to your studio. The major cities where the majority of Leica S2 users would be located have rental houses.

2. Rarely do we carry two complete redundant systems of this level gear. What we almost always have is a second system that has other strengths but has sufficient overlap. Michael proves that himself when he carries two or more systems on his photo expeditions. His one Africa trip where part of the Hasselblad went belly up is proof that gear does fail, and a second parallel system isn't a bad thing.  What was it?  A lens failure on one trip?

3. With equipment of this size, a redundant set of bodies and key lenses is as large, if not larger, than a second parallel system!

4. The vast majority of pros don't travel much. They have a studio and shoot weddings, portraits, corporate events and whatever else they can scare up in their markets. Lugging around extra (redundant) gear is pretty easy as the extra gear just stays either in the vehicle or in a spare equipment case hauled in with the lighting gear.

5. With the Phase-One system of which the backup situation is compared, I ask the all-important question:  How many Phase-One DB users have redundant bodies and backs?  And how many use FILM as a backup? If film was a suitable backup, why not shoot film in the first place and save $27000?

In theory, the issue on backup equipment is important, but in practice I don't think it's an issue to choose one system over another.

Ken N

[BernardLanguillier]

A couple of quick observations.

The battery use that I had may not be typical. I might have had a bad battery.

Michael,

Thanks.

Did you just shoot 125 frames on one battery, or did you use several and get the same average from those? I was under the impression you had shot a lot more than 125 images.

Cheers,
Bernard

[Quentin]

The S2 is a camera that I'm glad exists, but don't want to own.

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

I agree with Quentin on this one.

I'd add that an MFDB may make more sense, because it's more flexible. In the old film days MF cameras with film holder built in were quite cheap (like the Pentax 67) while cameras with interchangable backs were more expensive. With a digital back you can put it on different lens side assemblies. The Leica is simply like a Pentax 67 in concept. I guess that many would prefer more flexibility at the price point. I have a Pentax 67 and was quite happy with it before digital times.

On the other hand, if the Leica meets a photographers needs it's probably a very good design. There are probably some quirks around but they may be solved by firmware updates.

Finally, it seems from Michael's writing the "wov" factor with the Leica is fairly high.

Erik

The S2 is a camera that I'm glad exists, but don't want to own.