Shortest lens on an ARCA Discovery w. DB

[Rainer]

Hi,

Does anybody have experience using a DB on an Arca Swiss Discovery or F-Line camera?
What is the shortest usable lens to focus at infinity and still having room for shifting?
I know that a 65mm easily works, but what about 45, 35 oder even 28?

Thanks,
Rainer

[jotloob]

Hi,

Does anybody have experience using a DB on an Arca Swiss Discovery or F-Line camera?
What is the shortest usable lens to focus at infinity and still having room for shifting?
I know that a 65mm easily works, but what about 45, 35 oder even 28?

Thanks,
Rainer

Rainer

Which DISCOVERY or F-LINE CAMERA are you talking about ? ? ?
What is the size of the back frame ? ? ?  171x171 mm  ? ? ?

To work with an ARCA SWISS 4x5 inch camera and any DB , you would need a reduction frame down to 6x9 and then get the
appropriate adapter for your DB .
That reduction frame has part number 200 002 , but as far as I know , it was never built .
It seems , that the demand for it was too low .

If you use an ARCA SWISS 6x9 F-LINE or MONOLYTH (or DISCOVERY which you reduced to 6x9 , front and back frame) , you can attach all available adapters .

I use an ARCA SWISS F-LINE METRIC 6x9 and a RODENSTOCK APO-SIRONAR DIGITAL 4,5/35mm and a HASSELBLAD BACK CFV-16 and it works fine .
I can not tell about the RODENSTOCK DIGARON-S 28mm , because I do not own that lens .

For image circles and all lense data , go to the RODENSTOCK web pages .

Come back , if you have more questions .

Jürgen

[Rainer]

Thanks Jürgen.

I have a 171mm Discovery.
There is also a Graflok to Hasselblad V Adapter made by Linhof (i´ve even owned this one but sold it for little money instead of keeping it ...).
But it´s quite cheap - around 250-300 Euros new.
I´ve used it with a Hasselblad screen for composing.

I definetly don´t want to buy a reducing frame or something like that. Rather i´d sell the Discovery and get a complete 6x9 F-Line Metric Arca.

My Grandagon-N 65 has a flange focal length of 70mm.
I guess that i could still do movements with my w/a bellows if i get the front standard 10-15mm closer to the back.
So anything with a flange focal distance of 55-60mm and more should work, right.

Grandagon N 45mm: 55,5mm (should work)
Grandagon N 35mm: 43,2mm (no way)
Angulon XL 38mm: 52,1mm (guess no)
Angulon XL 47mm: 59,1mm (should work)

Digaron W 40mm: 69,5mm (sounds best)
Digaron S 35mm: 53,5mm (no ...)
Digaron S 28mm: 53,1mm (no ...)

Apo Sironar digital 55mm: 67,6mm (works)
Apo Sironar digital 45mm: 55,5mm (should work)
Apo Sironar digital 35mm: 43,2mm (no way on my Discovery, but obviously no problem on your 6x9 metric).

Am i overlooking something?
Anybody with experience on a Discovery?

Rainer

Which DISCOVERY or F-LINE CAMERA are you talking about ? ? ?
What is the size of the back frame ? ? ?  171x171 mm  ? ? ?

To work with an ARCA SWISS 4x5 inch camera and any DB , you would need a reduction frame down to 6x9 and then get the
appropriate adapter for your DB .
That reduction frame has part number 200 002 , but as far as I know , it was never built .
It seems , that the demand for it was too low .

If you use an ARCA SWISS 6x9 F-LINE or MONOLYTH (or DISCOVERY which you reduced to 6x9 , front and back frame) , you can attach all available adapters .

I use an ARCA SWISS F-LINE METRIC 6x9 and a RODENSTOCK APO-SIRONAR DIGITAL 4,5/35mm and a HASSELBLAD BACK CFV-16 and it works fine .
I can not tell about the RODENSTOCK DIGARON-S 28mm , because I do not own that lens .

For image circles and all lense data , go to the RODENSTOCK web pages .

Come back , if you have more questions .

Jürgen

[CBarrett]

Rainer,

The F Metric will focus a 35mm on a sliding back using the 15mm recessed lens board.  You can also focus the 24mm but not with the sliding back.  I'll post further once I've compiled all my thoughts on the subject.

-Chris

[jotloob]

Rainer,

The F Metric will focus a 35mm on a sliding back using the 15mm recessed lens board.  You can also focus the 24mm but not with the sliding back.  I'll post further once I've compiled all my thoughts on the subject.

-Chris

Chris

The RODENSTOCK APO-SIRONAR DIGTAL 4,5/35mm , mounted on the 15mm recessed board , can not be used on the ARCA-SWISS 6x9 METRIC when using the ROTASLIDE BACK .
The back frame needs a rework , which can only be done in the factory . When reworked , the knob for vertical shift must also have a smaller diameter .
I do not know if other lenses require the rework too , but the above mentioned lens definately does . My ARCA back frame is reworked .

Jürgen

[CBarrett]

Chris

The RODENSTOCK APO-SIRONAR DIGTAL 4,5/35mm , mounted on the 15mm recessed board , can not be used on the ARCA-SWISS 6x9 METRIC when using the ROTASLIDE BACK .
The back frame needs a rework , which can only be done in the factory . When reworked , the knob for vertical shift must also have a smaller diameter .
I do not know if other lenses require the rework too , but the above mentioned lens definately does . My ARCA back frame is reworked .

Jürgen

Hmm, it's been a year since I used the F Metric, but I was fairly certain I only had to take the sliding back off with the 24mm, but then we we're using the Kapture Group Slider, not the Rotaslide.... I have an email in to my old system's new owner to clarify.

All the more reason to buy an M Line 2!  Same money, same weight, more solid, more precise and NO issues with wide lenses.

[jotloob]

Hmm, it's been a year since I used the F Metric, but I was fairly certain I only had to take the sliding back off with the 24mm, but then we we're using the Kapture Group Slider, not the Rotaslide.... I have an email in to my old system's new owner to clarify.

All the more reason to buy an M Line 2!  Same money, same weight, more solid, more precise and NO issues with wide lenses.

Chris

Yes , the issue with the ROTASLIDE BACK only exists with the F-LINE series and not with the M-LINE  or M-LINE 2 .
Also , I can not speek for other sliding adapters .
Now , after the rework , the clearance between the rear barrel and the sliding adapter is about 1/2 mm only , but it works perfectly good .
No reason to go for an ARCA M-LINE .
But , I am about to go for an ALPA WA for film and digital .
I will come back here in an other thread .

Best regards Jürgen

[archivue]

To work with an ARCA SWISS 4x5 inch camera and any DB , you would need a reduction frame down to 6x9 and then get the
appropriate adapter for your DB .
That reduction frame has part number 200 002 , but as far as I know , it was never built .
It seems , that the demand for it was too low .

you can use that, but being recessed it won't be usable with sliding backs...

Ebay number :   160379879035

[CBarrett]

you can use that, but being recessed it won't be usable with sliding backs...

Ebay number :   160379879035

Yes, that reducer was indeed manufactured, I used to own 2.  Though they prohibit the use of sliding backs, the recess (15mm maybe?) further helps the problem of focusing wide lenses on the F Line.  If you use one on the front, too to use the smaller lens boards, you've just gained 30mm!  It's a good route for shooting digital with minimum expenditure if you already have a 4x5 F Line.

BTW, I have a 6x9 F Line Compact I might be convinced to part with.

-C

[Rainer]

you can use that, but being recessed it won't be usable with sliding backs...

Ebay number :   160379879035

Never thought about using the lens adapter board on the rear side! Sounds like the solution to my minimum flange focal distance problems. Especially if i use two as Chris suggested!
I don´t want to use a sliding back as i only want to start this as a low budget solution (Arca Discovery and Leaf Valeo 17 which i already own, adapter for the back, some 35mm lens, which i still have to purchase).

What do you think about the cheap Hassi V to Arca 69 adapters on the bay (# 310182668383)? Any good or too cheap to be good?

[archivue]

What do you think about the cheap Hassi V to Arca 69 adapters on the bay (# 310182668383)? Any good or too cheap to be good?

forget about it... i have one, mine isn't // and isn't properly calibrated for the original ground glass...

you have 2 others solutions...

Arca = LEGO©

171/110 adapter in the front (recessed 15mm) + recessed 110 lenboard
Kapture group sliding back on the back mounted on a flat 171 lenboard (old style)

or

for the back : 171/140 adapter + 140/110 ... this is a flat solution, in oreder to mount a rotaslide

i went in an opposite way :
i have an Arca F line 69
i have ad an M line Back to be able to used the rotaslide with my 35 xl
but focusing with the 35 is a challenge !


the digaron 40 is much better in this regard, but then you have some distortion !

[Rainer]

Thanks for your inputs.
Seems i´ve found a (real low budget) solution to my problem:

My dealer has a used 26mm recessed Copal 0 board for mounting a 38mm Super Angulon XL, that i´ve purchased from a forum member.
I didn´t know there is or was a 26mm recessed board even.
And he told me about a little trick to gain another 10mm: by turning the back frame 180 degrees, which lets the Hasselblad V to Graflok and so the sensor move forward around 10mm.
This trick only works of course with a DB not with a film holder cause it would be impossible then to insert the holder.

That should be enough space to focus and shift the 38mm at infinity and costs close to nothing ...

Thanks to one of the most knowledgable and helpful (Arca, Alpa, Cambo, ...) dealers in Europe, Mr. Greiner in Germany!