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Author Topic: wide.... I mean WIDE!  (Read 9018 times)

CBarrett

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wide.... I mean WIDE!
« on: November 20, 2009, 09:58:28 PM »

Ok.... who's shooting wider than a 35mm on their P65+?  What covers?  I think Rodie's 23 will cover with no movements, and the forthcoming Schneider 28mm is supposed to give movements... but which will cover the top of the world's tallest building?  The 23 with no rise or the 28 with rise?  I guess that argument is purely hypothetical at this point.  How can I decide between the two without spending 12 grand?

Or hell, even the Canon 17 T/S?

What's gonna get the shot?

Hmm....
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haefnerphoto

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« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2009, 10:14:46 PM »

Chris, I recommend both the 28mm Mamiya (unfortunately, no shift) and the 17mm T/S.  I'm at home and don't think there's anything here shot with the 17 (it's kind of new) but here's something shot with the 28.  The 17mm exhibits virtually no barrel distortion, maybe a very slight adjustment needed.  Jim
[attachment=18101:ext_1_04...ust_dc6b.jpg]

JoeKitchen

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« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2009, 10:22:04 PM »

Hello Chris,

Look at this "http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=35113"

It is a previous post by Jeff Totaro which he shows the amount of shift that you can get with the 23 HR Rod vs. the 24 Schneider; it looks like you get a lot of shift (6/10 mm) in the 23 mm considering how wide it is.  With that being said, I would still get the 28 Schneider and deal with a much less stretch factor unless you plan on only using this lens when looking dead on a building or close to it.  

Joe
« Last Edit: November 20, 2009, 10:25:55 PM by JoeKitchen »
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Joe Kitchen
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CBarrett

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« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2009, 10:57:50 PM »

Quote from: JoeKitchen
Hello Chris,

Look at this "http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=35113"

It is a previous post by Jeff Totaro which he shows the amount of shift that you can get with the 23 HR Rod vs. the 24 Schneider; it looks like you get a lot of shift (6/10 mm) in the 23 mm considering how wide it is.  With that being said, I would still get the 28 Schneider and deal with a much less stretch factor unless you plan on only using this lens when looking dead on a building or close to it.  

Joe

Thanks Joe, I've seen Jeff's comparison, which is why I would definitely go with the 23 over the 24... tough call about the 28 though.  I have rented the Phase 28mm and was amazed at how much more image it gave me than my 35mm, but found it to go soft in the corners.  If the Schneider 28 is a good performer it may just be the ticket.  Even though the 23 is so much wider, the 28's 90mm image circle may allow you to stitch an image that yields a wider FOV.... then again (as I've found with my 35mm) the useable image circle may be much smaller than the actual.

Now my head hurts.
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rainer_v

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« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2009, 02:13:30 AM »

Quote from: CBarrett
Thanks Joe, I've seen Jeff's comparison, which is why I would definitely go with the 23 over the 24... tough call about the 28 though.  I have rented the Phase 28mm and was amazed at how much more image it gave me than my 35mm, but found it to go soft in the corners.  If the Schneider 28 is a good performer it may just be the ticket.  Even though the 23 is so much wider, the 28's 90mm image circle may allow you to stitch an image that yields a wider FOV.... then again (as I've found with my 35mm) the useable image circle may be much smaller than the actual.

Now my head hurts.
All 3 ( 17 / 23 and probably the new Schneider 28 ) will do the job.
6mm movements on P65 with the 23mm isnt that bad. Let's see how will perform the schneider.
They need a new wide which match or surpass the HR lenses.
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jotloob

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« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2009, 03:35:49 AM »

Quote from: rainer_v
All 3 ( 17 / 23 and probably the new Schneider 28 ) will do the job.
6mm movements on P65 with the 23mm isnt that bad. Let's see how will perform the schneider.
They need a new wide which match or surpass the HR lenses.

Hello

I have information from a professional dealer and also from a camera producer , that LINOS-RODENSTOCK will add two more wide angle lenses to the HR DIGARON-W series ,
most probabely 28mm and 23(24)mm lenses with an image circle of 90mm .
That would give enough room for movements , even for bigger sensors than 37x49mm .
Therefore I delayed the purchase of a HR DIGARON-S 28mm lens .

Jürgen
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yaya

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« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2009, 03:36:10 AM »

The 17 T/S offers a fairly large image circle that should accommodate your chip size + some movement. It does, however, distort more than the Schneider/ Linos offerings.

You will need something like the Hartblei Cam to use it

Yair

Christopher

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« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2009, 06:55:44 AM »

Well the 23HR is certainly a great lens, however i am now even more interested in the new 28 from Schneider. If they really can get a good 90mm Image circle that would be amazing.

If and when RS gives us other wide angles could be discussed to death. It took them quite long to actually ship the 40HR-W and 23HR-S, so I am not so sure if we really see something from them soon. (At least from Schneider we have seen the actual lens 28/43) I would also be quite interested in how much a 23 with a 90mm image circle would cost. Any guess ^^ 10k ?

BJNY

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« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2009, 08:13:58 AM »

Quote from: yaya
The 17 T/S offers a fairly large image circle that should accommodate your chip size + some movement. It does, however, distort more than the Schneider/ Linos offerings.

You will need something like the Hartblei Cam to use it

Yair,

Do you know anyone who has actually used the Hartblei Cam?

Billy
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Guillermo

JoeKitchen

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« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2009, 11:50:29 AM »

Quote from: Christopher
I would also be quite interested in how much a 23 with a 90mm image circle would cost. Any guess ^^ 10k ?

And could you imagine how much it would weigh?
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JeffKohn

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« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2009, 07:59:03 PM »

Quote
Well the 23HR is certainly a great lens, however i am now even more interested in the new 28 from Schneider. If they really can get a good 90mm Image circle that would be amazing.
Is this supposed to be a symmetric or retrofocus design? I don't see how they can make a symmetric design at that focal length with such a big image circle, without having problems with color casts not to mention massive light falloff...

CBarrett

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« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2009, 08:06:32 PM »

Quote from: JeffKohn
Is this supposed to be a symmetric or retrofocus design? I don't see how they can make a symmetric design at that focal length with such a big image circle, without having problems with color casts not to mention massive light falloff...


Question:  Though symmetrically designed lenses have historically achieved greater quality due to the compromises inherent in retrofocus designs.... wouldn't a retrofocus lens with it's greater distance from the sensor than a comparable symmetrical lens be less prone to diffraction problems with it's angle of incidence being at a much more desirable angle?

No?
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JeffKohn

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« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2009, 08:10:33 PM »

Quote from: CBarrett
Question:  Though symmetrically designed lenses have historically achieved greater quality due to the compromises inherent in retrofocus designs.... wouldn't a retrofocus lens with it's greater distance from the sensor than a comparable symmetrical lens be less prone to diffraction problems with it's angle of incidence being at a much more desirable angle?

No?
To be honest I'm not sure about the impact on diffraction. Traditionally the advantage to symmetric designs is less distortion, but in the digital world that tradeoff has to be weighed against angle-of-incidence concerns with how the light hits the sensor at more of an angle towards the edges of the image circle.

sinar444

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« Reply #14 on: November 23, 2009, 06:19:40 AM »

Quote from: CBarrett
Ok.... who's shooting wider than a 35mm on their P65+?  What covers?  I think Rodie's 23 will cover with no movements, and the forthcoming Schneider 28mm is supposed to give movements... but which will cover the top of the world's tallest building?  The 23 with no rise or the 28 with rise?  I guess that argument is purely hypothetical at this point.  How can I decide between the two without spending 12 grand?

Or hell, even the Canon 17 T/S?

What's gonna get the shot?

Hmm....

Large format, 8x10" film, Schneider Super Symmar XL 150mm ;-)

Best regards
sinar444
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carlajons

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« Reply #15 on: November 23, 2009, 09:19:38 AM »

Better go for 28mm Mamiya . So far,i've got no complains in using this one...Been using it for years now,better try this one.

Regards,
carlajons
Disque dur multimedia


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brianc1959

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« Reply #16 on: November 24, 2009, 01:40:57 AM »

Quote from: CBarrett
Question:  Though symmetrically designed lenses have historically achieved greater quality due to the compromises inherent in retrofocus designs.... wouldn't a retrofocus lens with it's greater distance from the sensor than a comparable symmetrical lens be less prone to diffraction problems with it's angle of incidence being at a much more desirable angle?

No?

Absolutely correct.  The ultimate ultrawide lens *cannot* have a symmetrical design because of this very fact.  Of course, you don't have to use a reversed telephoto construction to move the exit pupil out to a reasonable distance.
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brianc1959

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« Reply #17 on: November 24, 2009, 01:47:13 AM »

Quote from: Christopher
Well the 23HR is certainly a great lens, however i am now even more interested in the new 28 from Schneider. If they really can get a good 90mm Image circle that would be amazing.

If and when RS gives us other wide angles could be discussed to death. It took them quite long to actually ship the 40HR-W and 23HR-S, so I am not so sure if we really see something from them soon. (At least from Schneider we have seen the actual lens 28/43) I would also be quite interested in how much a 23 with a 90mm image circle would cost. Any guess ^^ 10k ?

Since the Canon 17 TS-E has been mentioned in this thread it is interesting to note that it has a slightly larger angle of view than a 23mm lens covering a 90mm image circle.
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brianc1959

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« Reply #18 on: November 24, 2009, 01:52:10 AM »

Quote from: sinar444
Large format, 8x10" film, Schneider Super Symmar XL 150mm ;-)

Best regards
sinar444

Angular coverage of the Super Symmars is not nearly large enough - not even close!
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BernardLanguillier

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« Reply #19 on: November 24, 2009, 02:10:38 AM »

Quote from: CBarrett
Ok.... who's shooting wider than a 35mm on their P65+?  What covers?  I think Rodie's 23 will cover with no movements, and the forthcoming Schneider 28mm is supposed to give movements... but which will cover the top of the world's tallest building?  The 23 with no rise or the 28 with rise?  I guess that argument is purely hypothetical at this point.  How can I decide between the two without spending 12 grand?

Could stitching be useful for your applications? That would cost you at most 1 grant.

Regards,
Bernard
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A few images online here!
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