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Author Topic: New Hasselblad "multi shot"  (Read 12273 times)

LKaven

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New Hasselblad "multi shot"
« on: November 19, 2009, 03:11:56 pm »

Has anyone had a chance to preview or evaluate the newly announced (front page of DPR today) Hasselblad "multi shot" technology?

Hasselblad datasheet ("it's a PDF"):
http://www.hasselblad.co.uk/media/997168/u...atasheet_v3.pdf

Nick-T

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New Hasselblad "multi shot"
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2009, 03:26:58 pm »

Hate to burst your bubble but multi-shot technology has been around for at least 10 years  Do a search here for multi-shot and you should get some data. Basically for static subjects it produces much sharper cleaner images with more accurate colours, very useful tool to have. Apart from some very old backs the multi-shot systems will also capture single shots making them very flexible tools.
Nick-T
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ThierryH

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New Hasselblad "multi shot"
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2009, 03:28:48 pm »

Quote from: Nick-T
Hate to burst your bubble but multi-shot technology has been around for at least 10 years
Nick-T

It's even 15, Nick.

Best regards,
Thierry
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Nick-T

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New Hasselblad "multi shot"
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2009, 03:40:48 pm »

Quote from: ThierryH
It's even 15, Nick.

Best regards,
Thierry
Thanks Thierry I was hoping you'd chime in! My experience on goes back to 2000 with a 6MP 3020. (Did love that Phillips chip!) Did Sinar invent the process or was it Leaf?
Nick-T
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Mort54

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New Hasselblad "multi shot"
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2009, 03:45:40 pm »

Quote from: Nick-T
Hate to burst your bubble but multi-shot technology has been around for at least 10 years
I don't think he's suggesting that multi-shot is new. He's simply asking if anyone has had a chance to try out Hasselblad's "NEW" 50 MP multi-shot back. It's a "NEW" product Hasselblad just announced. I would think multi-shot on a 50 MP back would be quite impressive for the right kinds of subjects.
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BobDavid

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New Hasselblad "multi shot"
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2009, 04:18:44 pm »

Is live view working on the 50 MS?
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Dustbak

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« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2009, 04:21:38 pm »

It probably will be with Phocus2.0. I thought I understood there was another trade-in program in place but I have been looking for it and haven't found it sofar. I don't have a need to upgrade to the 50MS but depending on my possibilities I might be tempted.
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LKaven

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New Hasselblad "multi shot"
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2009, 04:33:59 pm »

Quote from: Mort54
I don't think he's suggesting that multi-shot is new. He's simply asking if anyone has had a chance to try out Hasselblad's "NEW" 50 MP multi-shot back. It's a "NEW" product Hasselblad just announced. I would think multi-shot on a 50 MP back would be quite impressive for the right kinds of subjects.
Thank you.

edwinb

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New Hasselblad "multi shot"
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2009, 04:53:55 pm »

Quote from: Nick-T
Thanks Thierry I was hoping you'd chime in! My experience on goes back to 2000 with a 6MP 3020. (Did love that Phillips chip!) Did Sinar invent the process or was it Leaf?
Nick-T

The first multishot I worked on was a sinar camera with a leaf cameraback and a filter wheel- a Sinar/leaf combination - Leaf software
Jenoptic did the piezo movements later
wasn't life simple then?
edwin
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ThierryH

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« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2009, 05:03:00 pm »

Quote from: edwinb
The first multishot I worked on was a sinar camera with a leaf cameraback and a filter wheel- a Sinar/leaf combination - Leaf software
Jenoptic did the piezo movements later
wasn't life simple then?
edwin

Dear Edwin,

yes, the "good old times"!



That was actually the Loral 2k x 2k = 4 MPx sensor. I know some places where it is STILL in use and produces outstanding quality. Yes, it was a Leaf-Sinar cooperation

What many did forget, is that "multishot" technology was actually how digital began with: there existed only monochrome CCDs, without color filters on top of each pixel, and the only way to get a color image was to take a 3-shot image through the basic R, G & B filters. That was already a "true-color" image, not interpolated.
Only a couple of years later came the first CCDs with the pixels "covered" with little color filters in a particular pattern, giving birth to the first 1-shot backs.

Best regards,
Thierry
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ThierryH

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« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2009, 05:19:55 pm »

Quote from: Nick-T
Thanks Thierry I was hoping you'd chime in! My experience on goes back to 2000 with a 6MP 3020. (Did love that Phillips chip!) Did Sinar invent the process or was it Leaf?
Nick-T

Dear Nick,

Yes, that is actually still a wonderful sensor, still used by many, even if sometimes only as backup unit. A Philips 6 MPx on a Macroscan in 16-shot mode and with the right lenses can still out-perform all current single shot backs.

As said, all started on the high-end level with Sinar cooperating with Leaf and developing a 2k x 2k Loral CCD sensor. If I am right, Leaf had already developed the back, when they started cooperation with Sinar.
All I can say about who is responsible for what is about the "Live-Video" feature, since I am partly responsible for it being developed in the next generation of backs, when I suggested to Mr. Koch to use the CCD the same way sensors were used in the video field. Mr. Koch asked if I was thinking this feature could be successful and accepted among photographers to which I proposed him to organize a "testing day" in Zuerich, with invitations to selected photographers, as soon as we could have a working prototype. That was done a few weeks later and the response was so positive among the attending professionals, that it was decided to go ahead and propose a "live image" with the next digital back.

Best regards,
Thierry
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Nick-T

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New Hasselblad "multi shot"
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2009, 06:17:49 pm »

Quote from: Mort54
I don't think he's suggesting that multi-shot is new. He's simply asking if anyone has had a chance to try out Hasselblad's "NEW" 50 MP multi-shot back. It's a "NEW" product Hasselblad just announced. I would think multi-shot on a 50 MP back would be quite impressive for the right kinds of subjects.


Sorry, no criticism of the OP was intended I must have mis-read. (A side benefit of my confusion has been some interesting stuff on those old backs being discussed, thanks Thierry)

To better answer the question I have no personal experience of the 50MP but would expect the quality to be very good, well worth getting hold of some examples to see the difference. Fabrics (like lie flat clothing or soft furnishings) whiskey bottles (with fine type) and pastel colours (in say a water colour) will all be good test subjects to illustrate the advantages of multi-shot.

Nick-T
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gss

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New Hasselblad "multi shot"
« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2009, 06:30:06 pm »

I'm just confused as to why they would introduce an H3DII-50 MS now rather than go straight to an H4D-50 MS.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2009, 06:30:45 pm by gss »
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David Grover / Capture One

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« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2009, 05:04:59 am »

Quote from: gss
I'm just confused as to why they would introduce an H3DII-50 MS now rather than go straight to an H4D-50 MS.

The H3DII-50MS started shipping back in May/June so it has been around for a while!

The first one went to the Van Gogh museum in The Netherlands I believe.

David

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Niels Van Iperen

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New Hasselblad "multi shot"
« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2009, 01:21:50 pm »


I have tried the H3DII50MS last week with a beta of Phocus 2.0 (with Live Video). It is without a doubt the best camera in the world at this moment. We did a test comparing with the P65+ which has an overall lackluster image with a complete lack of saturation, red color casts in the shadows and cyan color casts in the highlights. We also did a test comparing Hasselblad's H 120 f/4 macro, V 120 f/4 macro and Mamiya's 120 f/4 macro. Mamiya's lens lost big time, the V was in the middle (tested on the Dalsa sensor, though, hence without the Phocus lens corrections), and the Hasselblad H lens was the clear winner. Then we turned on the Multishot feature and it blew us all away. I can only describe it as about the same amount of difference that we found between the EOS 5DMKII with 50mm/1.4 and the H3D-39 with 80mm f/2.8 which we tested the day before.
I have never seen an image with more definition in my life.

-Niels
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BJL

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« Reply #15 on: November 21, 2009, 01:46:43 pm »

Quote from: Niels Van Iperen
I have tried the H3DII50MS last week ... Then we turned on the Multishot feature and it blew us all away. I can only describe it as about the same amount of difference that we found between the EOS 5DMKII with 50mm/1.4 and the H3D-39 with 80mm f/2.8 which we tested the day before.
I have never seen an image with more definition in my life.
Neils, what subject matter were you using? I have seen debate about what subjects do and do not benefit from multi-shot, with fine art reproduction and conservation work one suggestion. (Note that a museum got the first one.)
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Niels Van Iperen

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« Reply #16 on: November 21, 2009, 02:00:42 pm »

Quote from: BJL
Neils, what subject matter were you using? I have seen debate about what subjects do and do not benefit from multi-shot, with fine art reproduction and conservation work one suggestion. (Note that a museum got the first one.)

We did a still set with some fruit, a bank note and a color card. Measured grey values on the color card.
Fruit is good for viewing reproduction of real colors. Bank notes are excellent because of the detail in their printing. If you want I can post some results when I get back to the studio.

-Niels
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BJNY

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« Reply #17 on: November 21, 2009, 02:59:46 pm »

Quote from: Niels Van Iperen
I have tried the H3DII50MS last week with a beta of Phocus 2.0 (with Live Video). It is without a doubt the best camera in the world at this moment. We did a test comparing with the P65+ which has an overall lackluster image with a complete lack of saturation, red color casts in the shadows and cyan color casts in the highlights. We also did a test comparing Hasselblad's H 120 f/4 macro, V 120 f/4 macro and Mamiya's 120 f/4 macro. Mamiya's lens lost big time, the V was in the middle (tested on the Dalsa sensor, though, hence without the Phocus lens corrections), and the Hasselblad H lens was the clear winner. Then we turned on the Multishot feature and it blew us all away. I can only describe it as about the same amount of difference that we found between the EOS 5DMKII with 50mm/1.4 and the H3D-39 with 80mm f/2.8 which we tested the day before.
I have never seen an image with more definition in my life.

-Niels

Yes, please post some results.
Was the live video in b+w or color, and how many fps?
Thank you,
Billy
« Last Edit: November 21, 2009, 03:09:49 pm by BJNY »
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Guillermo

BJNY

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New Hasselblad "multi shot"
« Reply #18 on: November 21, 2009, 03:14:04 pm »

Quote from: gss
I'm just confused as to why they would introduce an H3DII-50 MS now rather than go straight to an H4D-50 MS.

Quote from: David Grover / Hasselblad
The H3DII-50MS started shipping back in May/June so it has been around for a while!

The first one went to the Van Gogh museum in The Netherlands I believe.

David

David,
If one purchases H3dii-50ms now, does the camera body get upgraded when H4d is available
as with H3dii-50 and H3dii-60?
Thank you,
Billy
« Last Edit: November 21, 2009, 03:14:30 pm by BJNY »
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Guillermo

yaya

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« Reply #19 on: November 21, 2009, 03:40:40 pm »

Quote from: Niels Van Iperen
tested on the Dalsa sensor, though, hence without the Phocus lens corrections
-Niels

Confused

Yair
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