staining of Hahnemuhle Photo Rag paper

[Spike Mafford]

I have a print on Hahnemuhle photo rag paper which was tipped onto 4ply rag board with
archival adhesives.  It is showing yellow stains bleeding through the paper.
Does anyone have experience with this issue?
The print was framed 2 years ago.
Thank you,
Spike Mafford

[Bruce Watson]

There was an issue with HPR and yellowing from adhesives and other contaminates. Several years ago. Search the archives for theYahoo groups EpsonWideFormat and DigitalBlackAndWhiteThePrint. IIRC, Hahnemuhle even had problems with the adhesives used in the HPR packaging causing yellowing.

[Spike Mafford]

Thank you!
Spike

[howseth]

Yikes!   are you using an archival adhesive linen tape - or some type of loose "archival" adhesive - you are applying?

Howard

[Spike Mafford]

The adhesive was applied by a frame shop in Seattle called Artech.
They have been doing archival work for over 30 years and never
seen this.

[Bruce Watson]

The adhesive was applied by a frame shop in Seattle called Artech.
They have been doing archival work for over 30 years and never
seen this.

Yes, but they haven't been archivally framing inkjet prints for 30 years. And therein lies the problem perhaps. Often well established framers take a while to learn this new media we use (at least the framers where I am seem befuddled by it). What works for a darkroom print doesn't necessarily work for an inkjet print and vice versa.

Inkjet prints are interestingly both more, and less, susceptible to contamination. They are "cleaner" than darkroom prints because they don't have any residual hypo in the paper. But they are also not sealed with that nice thin overcoat of clear gelatin either. A well dry-mounted darkroom print is protected front (gelatin overcoat) and back (buffered matte board), so it usually deteriorates first along the very small area of the exposed edges. An inkjet print is usually hinge mounted, so is not really protected front or back. If there's any contamination available, there's nothing to stop it from attacking the print.

Take for example a wooden frame. If it's outgassing anything at all, the print is just hanging there waiting for it. Unless the framer made the effort to fully seal the wood away from the interior of the frame. Just sayin'...

[howseth]

Better check-in with Artech - get the skinny on what exactly they are using: they will want to know too - whats going on.

Howard

[neile]

For those that aren't in Seattle, Artech is an extremely experienced framing shop that handles high-end work all the time. They are the company that handles all the framing needs for the Microsoft Art Collection, for example. If someday I can afford an Ansel Adams print (ha!), I'm taking it there to be framed.

Sounds like from the above posts this was a problem with the paper, but I agree on letting Artech know so they can warn future customers about it.

Neil

[TylerB]

This is a problem with the adhesive used for the job. I'm sorry but despite Artech's status in the community and clear expertise here in Seattle, as Bruce said inkjet is a new situation. They could have used the exact same process on any number of media, including traditional photography, with no problem, but not matte coated inkjet. Unfortunately the very community, conservators, framers, etc., that wear so much expertise on their sleeve, are the last to catch up on this stuff.
The rest of us working with these materials have been dealing with it for a decade now.
This could have been any number of coated inkjet papers, including some of Epson's, and the same thing would have happened. HPR seems to get the most notice about it, perhaps it reveals the problem more obviously than some other papers, but I suspect it's really because of it's popularity out there in the world, and the sheer volume of prints under scrutiny compared to other papers.
My first exposure to this problem was with the very first beta sample I was given of Somerset Enhanced, before most of these papers were even on the market. I opened the box, and there was a bright yellow stain in the coating in the exact shape of the tape used the seal the outside of the packaging. Many adhesives outgass, right through porous materials like cardboard or in this case the back of the paper, and form (we think) a visible sulfur component. Interestingly, it will disappear after some UV exposure.
I've even seen it on Epson paper, after remove their vinyl coated spring clip around a roll that sat for a few weeks. Vinyl also outgasses.
For years we've had to make this same post on the lists after seeing problems like this... we need much more widespread knowledge of these new materials and how to handle them, and acceptance of the reality that there is more to learn when new materials and media come along instead of relying on years of previous knowledge.
Perhaps Mark from Aardenburg will chime in, I'd be interested in knowing if there has been any interest in his work, the most informative in this field, from the framing and conservator community.
Tyler
http://www.custom-digital.com/

[Alan Goldhammer]

I've been using "archival" polypropylene mounting corners when I frame.  The corners are small relative to the print and adhesive never touches the print.  The back mat and overmat are both conservation rag matboard.  I think this is as neutral as one can get with respect to "contamination."  I've not had any prints matted for over a year and the ones that I have taken out and swapped in a new print show no discoloration at the corners (polypropylene is inert and as I recall not very permeable so what ever is on the adhesive ought not to pass through).

[neile]

This is a problem with the adhesive used for the job.

If that's the case, what adhesive are you using to avoid this? I'm using Filmoplast P90 and haven't had any problems so far.

Neil

[TylerB]

If that's the case, what adhesive are you using to avoid this? I'm using Filmoplast P90 and haven't had any problems so far.

Neil

to be honest I would never let any adhesive touch any coated matte inkjet paper. I was lucky to become aware of the problem years ago while setting up and transitioning to ink, before anything had to go in a frame. First I used "archival" corners, but they slipped over time, and the adhesive used on them is in too close proximity to the print. So now I use corners made from acid free paper, taped down with filmoplast P90, like you are using.
I have not seen or heard reports of problems from the Filmoplast adhesive, though time will tell. I'm sure there are safe adhesives out there with some asking around. Here are some replies I collected a few years back, names removed, perhaps the last is the most informative-

"FWIW I've used Crescent archival self adhesive mount board on Will Turner. Two
years and
no yellowing or other changes."

"I would be concerned. Most acrylic PSA are fine. Fine art coated art paper (rag
and non rag) should only be dry mounted (Heat and a Press) with Clear Mount from
Bienfang. This solution has been tested for for 4 years by me on 100's of fine
art prints. It will not cause a yellowing reaction. Photo ink jet RC type
papers are not a problem with ANY adhesive systems we have tested/either PSA or
Heat activated. However a PSA bond has a possibility to let go in the long run
and one might see large air pockets and edge lift/not the case with a dry mount
heat activated bond."

"All rubber based PSA adhesives we have tested turned
the coatings (fine art paper) yellow. This not only will happen at the point of
contact but the contamination can travel/as a matter of fact if you have a poly
print bag (not Polyester) and put a piect of rubber based tape on top of it the
print inside will yellow. USE ACRYLIC ADHESIVE PSA."