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Author Topic: Diglloyd reviews the M9  (Read 13460 times)

BJL

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Diglloyd reviews the M9
« Reply #20 on: November 18, 2009, 05:04:24 pm »

Quote from: Dan Wells
It's too bad the new Samsung will use Optrontec lenses ...
This does not surprise me, but where did you read this? Well, that could improve the market for my imagined high quality third party EVIL lenses!

P.S. Optrontec might well be the manufacturer of some of those Schneider-branded lenses too; Pentax seemed to make some of them for Samsung DSLRs, and I doubt that Schneider actually manufactures any such lenses, any more than Leica manufacturers lenses for Panasonic, or Zeiss manufactures lenses for Sony. (Design, maybe, but not always even that.) For lenses that I can afford, particularly ones that zoom or auto-focus, I have a prejudice for ones that carry a reputable Japanese brand like Canon, Nikon, Olympus or Pentax, rather than a prestigious German brand, because there is far more chance that it is actually the brand of the maker!
« Last Edit: November 18, 2009, 05:05:41 pm by BJL »
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Dan Wells

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Diglloyd reviews the M9
« Reply #21 on: November 18, 2009, 07:45:01 pm »

Quote from: BJL
This does not surprise me, but where did you read this? Well, that could improve the market for my imagined high quality third party EVIL lenses!

P.S. Optrontec might well be the manufacturer of some of those Schneider-branded lenses too; Pentax seemed to make some of them for Samsung DSLRs, and I doubt that Schneider actually manufactures any such lenses, any more than Leica manufacturers lenses for Panasonic, or Zeiss manufactures lenses for Sony. (Design, maybe, but not always even that.) For lenses that I can afford, particularly ones that zoom or auto-focus, I have a prejudice for ones that carry a reputable Japanese brand like Canon, Nikon, Olympus or Pentax, rather than a prestigious German brand, because there is far more chance that it is actually the brand of the maker!

Optrontec actually put out a press release! As reported on k-rumors.com (July 9). The Sony "Zeiss" lenses are made in Japan (a country with its own very fine optical heritage) on Zeiss supplied equipment, supposedly with Zeiss quality control, and almost certainly by former Minolta (themselves highly reputable) lens technicians who now work for Sony (or by technicians who have been making well-regarded Sony video and cine lenses). I don't know the situation with the Panasonic "Leica" lenses as well, but it seems similar. I think the Samsung Schneider lenses are really Pentax lenses (they seemed to show up around the same time as the Samsung/Pentax partnership, with suspiciously similar specs)... I would assume that the "Schneiders" on compact cameras are probably also made by Pentax or someone else pretty good (they seem to be a real differentiator of the better Samsung compacts, just as only better Sony compacts have "Zeiss" lenses, and they do seem to be a cut above the lenses on their cheaper cameras).
        Optrontec, on the other hand, is a company nobody's ever heard of as a lens maker, whose previous experience seems to be in cell phone camera lenses (I don't read Korean, so I can't confirm this from Optrontec's own website, but that showed up in some forum comments) and non-optical work. Additionally, they're located in a country where not a lot of lens manufacture takes place (very good and increasingly sophisticated electronics, yes -lenses, no), so skilled lens technicians may be harder to find. I don't have a prejudice one way or another between Japanese-made lenses with German names or Japanese ones, because optical gems like the 24-70 f2.8 Nikkor are completely Japanese, but the 35mm f2 Zeiss Biogon is a German/Japanese collaboration - both are wonderful lenses. I just don't believe that a company that has never made high quality lenses under their own name is especially likely to step up and play with the big names (whether German or Japanese) who have been making great lenses for 40 to 100 years. Cell phone and low end compact camera lenses don't strike me as a resume that qualifies a firm to make great lenses for a DX sensor - I bet Samsung was planing to have Pentax make the lenses, probably with a Schneider label, then got caught when their partnership with Pentax ended, leaving them with nobody to use besides Optrontec.


                                    -Dan
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DaveCurtis

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Diglloyd reviews the M9
« Reply #22 on: November 19, 2009, 03:18:25 am »

Yes, Diglloyds review is very interesting. The Leica 35mm f/2 Summicron-M ASPH vs Zeiss ZM 35mm f/2 Biogon T on the M9 was also interesting in regard to the focusing issues with the M9.

He has also complete a review on the 50 f0.95 Noctulix on the M9. I could never afford one of there but  still one can dream
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BernardLanguillier

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Diglloyd reviews the M9
« Reply #23 on: November 19, 2009, 03:53:06 am »

Quote
My money is still on a middle way: EVIL...

Who would have thought even just a few years ago that evil could have been so good.

Cheers,
Bernard

BJL

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Diglloyd reviews the M9
« Reply #24 on: November 19, 2009, 01:36:29 pm »

Quote from: BernardLanguillier
Who would have thought even just a few years ago that evil could have been so good.
A funny thing: the acronym EVIL was invented about three years before any company announced any such product ... but when several companies were already secretly working on it. So this EVIL idea has been bubbling away underground and mostly out of sight for a while, and has only recently started revealing itself.
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telyt

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Diglloyd reviews the M9
« Reply #25 on: November 21, 2009, 08:59:02 am »

Quote from: BJL
My money is still on a middle way: EVIL wide angle lens designs that do not need to be as severely retro-focal as for SLRs, but with exit pupil high enough for the sensors to handle off-perpendicular light adequately, so maybe not the simplest, smallest classic rangefinder designs.

This describes most of the current Leica M wide-angle lenses.
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BJL

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Diglloyd reviews the M9
« Reply #26 on: November 21, 2009, 12:46:15 pm »

Quote from: telyt
This describes most of the current Leica M wide-angle lenses.
Those lenses lose the "wide-angle" virtue when used with a 4/3" or APS-C format sensor. How wide-angle coverage will be restored was a main point of my original comment.

Also, at least some current RF wide-angle lenses do not fit my description when it comes to "exit pupil high enough for the sensors to handle off-perpendicular light adequately": that is why Leica and Kodak have hard to work hard on special micro-lens designs to handle the highly off-perpendicular incident light from some RF wide-angle lenses. Remember that a few years ago Leica sad that this was difficult to do, in explaining why the M8 had a 1.3x crop sensor.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2009, 01:42:23 pm by BJL »
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paratom

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Diglloyd reviews the M9
« Reply #27 on: December 07, 2009, 11:09:49 am »

Quote from: kers
It is amazing that a company so dedicated to optical excellence makes cameras that cannot be focussed precisely , while the technique is already there.

It is know that rangefinder lenses have to be accuratly calibrated to focus correctly.
The fact that the lenses of a camera tester were not properly calibrated (=faulty) doesnt say much about thecapability of the camera system itself.
Avoid the few lenses which are known for focus shift, test your lenses when you get them and make sure they are fine, get them calibrated if they are not fine, and then just use the smallest full frame sensor camera with a full range of excellent primes.


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