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Author Topic: Any way to dry ink on canvas any faster to speed up varnishing?  (Read 4798 times)

dgberg

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Any way to dry ink on canvas any faster to speed up varnishing?
« on: November 05, 2009, 04:39:17 pm »

I asked a similar question several months ago. But am now wondering how powerful the dryer in the spectro is ? Will the ink dryer in the 7900 and 9900 Spectro dry the ink faster for immediate application of Glamor II? Or is it drying it only to the point of making it easier to read internally?
« Last Edit: November 05, 2009, 04:53:08 pm by Dan Berg »
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booksmartstudio

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Any way to dry ink on canvas any faster to speed up varnishing?
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2009, 06:04:30 pm »

I am not exactly sure as our Epson 9900 and 7990 have not arrived yet.    The spectro drying is to speed up the amount of time you must wait before profiling.  You should normally wait 24 hours before profiling your targets to ensure optimum accuracy.  I would use it to dry the images on the maximum time and speed of the blower.  Good luck.
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Kory Gunnasen
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dgberg

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Any way to dry ink on canvas any faster to speed up varnishing?
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2009, 07:16:57 am »

Thanks
Did not want to beat this subject to death. Just curious how the internal dryer would affect the total ink drying time. I did not buy the Spectro with either my 7900 or 9900 but would add it in a heartbeat if it solved my problem. My issue is not with clients coming through the door they happily wait a week. The issue is my canvas workshops. I must find a way to be able to print the image they bring along for class and then GlamorII and stretch it all in one day. So far it is not going to happen. It turns a one day content workshop into 2 days. Lodging,meals,transportation and the additional expense of a 2 day workshop.
The new plan for all one day workshops will be to print 2 canvases ahead of time. When dry I will varnish one so it is dry to stretch at the class. So when folks show up we will print one to explain the printinging process. I will take the dry print from earlier and demonstrate the Glamor II process. Finally I will take the 3rd. canvas that was previously varnished and dried to demonstrate the gallery stretching process. If the clients send the images ahead of time I can do all of thess processes ahead of time so each cliet has their own personal gallery wrapped image to take home with them.
When you take the time to type this all out you can see some of the hurdles that are required to make this all work. Maye the answer is make it a 2 day class and all problems are solved.

Ps. Kory,
 Do you have both on order or was that just a tounge in cheek remark?
I was told I would have my 9900 in 2 to 3 days and all of a sudden its on backorder,hmmm!
« Last Edit: November 06, 2009, 03:27:28 pm by Dan Berg »
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iCanvas

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Any way to dry ink on canvas any faster to speed up varnishing?
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2009, 09:06:25 am »

Hi Dan,

I print only on canvas with a 4880 and a 9900. I coat my images within an hour of coming off the printer, or even a few minutes after being printed, and I have never, ever had a problem.  I can understand why Epson recommends waiting 24 hours to cover themselves, but in practical experience, I have never had any defect because I coated within a short period of time. That is my 2 cents worth.

Gar
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booksmartstudio

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Any way to dry ink on canvas any faster to speed up varnishing?
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2009, 10:08:56 am »

Yep, both are on order...  Epson was inundated with orders because of the rebate being offered.  Especially with the 4880.  The 7880 is my personal one and the 9880 is getting added to our collection of printers here at Booksmart.  I can't wait to test it against the Canon 12 color printers.
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Kory Gunnasen
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dgberg

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Any way to dry ink on canvas any faster to speed up varnishing?
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2009, 03:31:11 pm »

The 7900 is just outstanding. I do mostly gallery wraps and was just not able to print large enough with the 24" printer. Got an order for 2 long canvas panos and 3 large 40" gallery wraps all from the same client. She left the shop and I had the 9900 ordered in 5 minutes. Cannot wait till it gets here. Friday afternoon here in Pa. and I finally have a tracking number so hope to see it Monday.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2009, 03:32:02 pm by Dan Berg »
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Bruce Watson

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Any way to dry ink on canvas any faster to speed up varnishing?
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2009, 04:41:27 pm »

Quote from: Dan Berg
I asked a similar question several months ago. But am now wondering how powerful the dryer in the spectro is ? Will the ink dryer in the 7900 and 9900 Spectro dry the ink faster for immediate application of Glamor II? Or is it drying it only to the point of making it easier to read internally?

It's drying only to the point of making it easier to read.

If you want to dry the print in preparation for coating, you need a source of both heat and air movement. I use a hand-held hairdryer. Works really well -- it has let me go from printer to framed and on the wall in about 45 minutes with no signs of outgassing issues. Should be sufficient for you to use to dry the print prior to coating.
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Bruce Watson
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dgberg

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Any way to dry ink on canvas any faster to speed up varnishing?
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2009, 08:32:34 pm »

Thanks Bruce,
if I use all these little tricks of the trade together this may work after all. I have a backboard on the wall I made to hang canvas prints to dry better after the Glamor II process. No reason this should not work with the small ceramic space heater I have placed in front of the hanging print. The only issue I have found to date is pushing the gallery wrap process when the Glamor II is still gumy. You can just barely touch the framed canvas and you can skim right through the varnish and ink. I have a magic marker set for light touch ups but the stuff is not very durable until dry. Of course I know all this stuff but I keep pushing the boundaries.

Wayne Fox

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Any way to dry ink on canvas any faster to speed up varnishing?
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2009, 11:59:56 pm »

Quote from: Bruce Watson
It's drying only to the point of making it easier to read.

If you want to dry the print in preparation for coating, you need a source of both heat and air movement. I use a hand-held hairdryer. Works really well -- it has let me go from printer to framed and on the wall in about 45 minutes with no signs of outgassing issues. Should be sufficient for you to use to dry the print prior to coating.


How do you know it's ready to go?  From everything I've read it's pretty tough to completely dry the glycols that quickly.  Sure it feels try to the touch, but I can't imagine using a hair dryer on a large canvas can guarantee a thorough drying.
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Wayne Fox

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Any way to dry ink on canvas any faster to speed up varnishing?
« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2009, 12:12:02 am »

Quote from: Dan Berg
I asked a similar question several months ago. But am now wondering how powerful the dryer in the spectro is ? Will the ink dryer in the 7900 and 9900 Spectro dry the ink faster for immediate application of Glamor II? Or is it drying it only to the point of making it easier to read internally?


Doubtful the spectro does that much. The initial outgass of inkjet can affect the color.  This normally happens very quickly after printing so it seems logical all this dryer does is make sure this has happened before the spectro takes it's readings.

However, it takes far longer to completely dry the glycols and glycerines ... up to a couple of weeks.  The elements that would speed this up are circulating air, heat, and humidity ... of which air circulation and low humidity are the critical ones.

The real challenge is you don't know when it's dry.  You can't tell by feeling the print.  Personally I'd rather err on the safe side, so I wait.

Canvas is not as sensitive to this as RC based papers because they can dry through the fabric, so I don't think drying time needs to be excessive.  I wait about 3 days before I coat them.  Who knows ... maybe that's way too long.  Maybe with canvas, hanging them up and putting a fan to blow against them for a couple of hours is plenty.  On the other hand, for all I know it isn't near long enough.

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Bruce Watson

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Any way to dry ink on canvas any faster to speed up varnishing?
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2009, 06:01:40 pm »

Quote from: Wayne Fox
How do you know it's ready to go?  From everything I've read it's pretty tough to completely dry the glycols that quickly.  Sure it feels try to the touch, but I can't imagine using a hair dryer on a large canvas can guarantee a thorough drying.
I didn't say it would be easy. And I was careful not to encourage anyone to do it. I was just answering the OP's question.

That said, what works for me is to put one hand on the back side of the print, and run the hair dryer with the other hand on the other side (keep the hair dryer very close to the print [without hitting it] and move it *slowly* back and forth over a small area -- slowly so the print actually heats up, which is the point). The hand on the back side of the print can feel the temperature differences fairly well. First thing that happens is the back side actually gets a little colder. It'll feel damp to the touch too (and no, that's not water -- feels damp when you do this days after printing when the water is long gone). While this is going on you'll smell the glycols and glycerins coming off the print. Then you'll feel it start it warm up -- the temperature actually ramps up. When most of the glycols and glycerins are gone, it's almost like a step function increase in temperature on the back of the print, and the dampness is completely gone. Then you move to the next spot and repeat. You keep repeating until done.

The process might take half an hour or more for a really big canvas. But if you are in a serious hurry, this is one way to get the job done. Painful, boring, and a questionable use of energy (and the resulting generation of green house gases), all true. But effective.

An alternative might be hanging the print in full sun for an hour or so with a small oscillating fan blowing over it. All you need to do is give the glycols and glycerins enough energy to make the phase change from liquid to vapor, and move them away from the print when they make that leap so they don't condense back onto the print when they cool off. The "ultimate" way is probably something like a silk screener's tunnel dryer if you have the cash and the physical room for one.
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Bruce Watson
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bill t.

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Any way to dry ink on canvas any faster to speed up varnishing?
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2009, 08:14:52 pm »

Quote from: Bruce Watson
An alternative might be hanging the print in full sun for an hour or so with a small oscillating fan blowing over it.
FWIW I did some experimentation with spraying canvas on a 45F or 7C day and found that when facing the sun on a clear day at almost 2 kilometers altitude the canvas actually got too hot to spray after about 15 minutes!  I measured 105F or 40C on the print.  This may have involved some greenhouse effect from the space between the print and the MDF support sheet.  That should drive those glycols off pretty fast.  Keep an eye on those birds, they are the bluntest of art critics.
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dgberg

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Any way to dry ink on canvas any faster to speed up varnishing?
« Reply #12 on: November 08, 2009, 07:06:02 am »

Thanks Bill,
This is that important that I am presently working on a drying unit. In my cabinetry spray booth I am building an  insulated hanging rack for at least 4 prints. I have 2 small ceramic electric heaters plus 2 fans for air movement. I am going to print some smaller canvas prints and write the print time on the back. I will then dry them for different time periods,ink only and then timed glamor coated. I can then do the scratch test and see what happens. The only thing you cannot tell from these tests as it is not very scientific is what is the long term longevity of these force dried prints going to be. A little less important as these will be free bees given out at the school,but I want to make sure it works.  For my workshops my goal is to process and print the clients images by 10:30 am. 2 1/2 hours to force dry. Then after lunch at around 1 pm do the Glamor II process. 2 hours for that drying process and we would be gallery wrapping by 3 pm. Done by 5. Will report back.

Ps. This plan is a heck of alot cheaper then that $2500 spectro proofer anyway!
« Last Edit: November 08, 2009, 07:09:46 am by Dan Berg »
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