What about Hasselblad

[gdwhalen]

I don't know how they measure mirror vibration at Hasselblad. All I know is that it feels more prominent than on a Contax in your hands. If you really try to feel what is happening - and where - the action from the Contax seems to be centered in the body, slightly towards the hand grip. And the action feels vertical and muffled by the camera body. On the H2, it feels like the action is coming into play from the front of the camera/lens and it has a sideways feel to it. As if someone pushed down on the left side of the lens on the front of your camera.

Perhaps the vibration measurement in Hasselblad's testing did show the H2 producing less vibration than the Contax, I believe you. But that brings into play how it is measured. In the hand, the Contax feels somewhere in the core of the body, vertical action, muffled. On the H2, it's more towards the front of the camera or lens and the action feels like a yank to the left.

The delay on the H2 does help, but no matter how the vibration is measured, the mirror action of the Contax - in the hand -  will have less effect on the sharpness of the image.


Steve Hendrix

I might be alone here but it disturbs me when an employee of another company (whether Hasselblad, Phase, Leica, Contax, etc) comments on a thread about another companies equipment.  I can understand defending your own equipment but I don't respect piling on opinions or impressions of an obvious competitor.  It just doesn't strike me as being professional and it certainly can't be read as a neutral statement.   Just my opinion.

[gwhitf]

Regarding the H system, is there an on-camera flash unit that fully talks to the H body? In the old days, there was that Hasselblad flash that hooked up to the 203FE body so well. It looked kinda like that Quantum Q Flash, in way.

When I look on this page:

http://www.hasselbladusa.com/products/lens...ccessories.aspx

I don't see a flash unit. Could you use the old unit? Are there downsides to it? (And please, no recommendations to use the professional pop-up flash in the viewfinder). Thanks.

[Steve Hendrix]

I might be alone here but it disturbs me when an employee of another company (whether Hasselblad, Phase, Leica, Contax, etc) comments on a thread about another companies equipment.  I can understand defending your own equipment but I don't respect piling on opinions or impressions of an obvious competitor.  It just doesn't strike me as being professional and it certainly can't be read as a neutral statement.   Just my opinion.

I certainly understand your feelings about this G.

I share the same reticence and as a result, keep that very much to a minimum and also try to restrict anything I say to quantifiable information.

With me, it's a little weird because I've sold all of the major brands throughout my career.

The other thing to keep in mind is that - in general - most of the dealers and reps, etc, know each other very well, have a high degree of respect for each other, and personally wish each other the best (or something close to that).

And, honestly, I hope that if I or any other member of our team at Capture Integration ever glosses over an issue, or states something which in actual application is not the case, that someone points it out to us. The most important thing that can occur from our participation in forums like these, is that the end users themselves have access to the most accurate information regarding the products they might purchase or already own.

In many cases, we are particularly credible, sometimes more so than prospective end users because of our comparative experience with a broad array of similar products, which takes into account legacy and current performance. When it comes to checking each other, we are often optimally positioned to do just that.

Sorry, but when I read that a Hasselblad H2 has less mirror vibration than a Contax 645 AF, I feel obligated to mention my - very valid, IMO - experience with both cameras.

We don't sell Contax either...  


Steve Hendrix

[Carsten W]

I might be alone here but it disturbs me when an employee of another company (whether Hasselblad, Phase, Leica, Contax, etc) comments on a thread about another companies equipment.  I can understand defending your own equipment but I don't respect piling on opinions or impressions of an obvious competitor.  It just doesn't strike me as being professional and it certainly can't be read as a neutral statement.   Just my opinion.

The neutrality does not depend on the employer, but on the individual in question. I trust Steve to say the truth, and not something else. Besides, didn't Steve used to work for Hasselblad, or a dealer (PPR), so he really ought to have some experience with it?

[tho_mas]

We don't sell Contax

That bites!

[Steve Hendrix]

That bites!

Tell me about it!



Steve Hendrix

[Dick Roadnight]

Perhaps the vibration measurement in Hasselblad's testing did show the H2 producing less vibration than the Contax, I believe you. But that brings into play how it is measured. In the hand, the Contax feels somewhere in the core of the body, vertical action, muffled. On the H2, it's more towards the front of the camera or lens and the action feels like a yank to the left.
Steve Hendrix

The only vibration that counts is what happens during the exposure - if you get vibration after the exposure (when the mirror comes down), it does not blur the image.

[tho_mas]

Tell me about it!

I know... now you have to sell Mamiyas  

[bcooter]

Tell me about it!



Steve Hendrix

There is probably not a single specialty camera dealer who does not know the H system well, regardless of the brand of back they sell.

Steve obviously does because he's sold them all and though he now writes like a lawyer (insert one of those silly smiley faced things), I know from experience he won't push something on a customer that
won't work for them.

He handed me a hasselblad 39 when it was still in release and I shot some frames, like the look of the file but explained what did and didn't work for me and he left it at that.

He's not over the top selling anything.

BC

[Steve Hendrix]

The only vibration that counts is what happens during the exposure - if you get vibration after the exposure (when the mirror comes down), it does not blur the image.

True, but the fact there are increments indicates there is residual affect. Perhaps not? Then why have increments?


Steve Hendrix

[Steve Hendrix]

There is probably not a single specialty camera dealer who does not know the H system well, regardless of the brand of back they sell.

Steve obviously does because he's sold them all and though he now writes like a lawyer (insert one of those silly smiley faced things), I know from experience he won't push something on a customer that
won't work for them.

He handed me a hasselblad 39 when it was still in release and I shot some frames, like the look of the file but explained what did and didn't work for me and he left it at that.

He's not over the top selling anything.

BC

I'm nothing if not diplomatic. My curse is being able to see the virtues of competing arguments. I often have a hard time disagreeing with someone after they've detailed their argument to me (though it's not impossible for me to do).


Steve Hendrix

[David Grover / Capture One]

True, but the fact there are increments indicates there is residual affect. Perhaps not? Then why have increments?


Steve Hendrix

The 'vibration' was measured to dissipate after 40ms, hence the minimum being 50ms.  The reason that there are increments are the unknown variable(s) attached to the camera.

[gwhitf]

The only vibration that counts is what happens during the exposure - if you get vibration after the exposure (when the mirror comes down), it does not blur the image.

Have you tested this phenomenon personally, both handheld and tripod mounted? I have. So what were your findings?

My opinion now is that the H2 and H1 are tripod-only, mirror-up cameras, or, with-studio-strobe cameras, to kill this "lunging effect" from the body.

I have tests that show camera shake even on a giant Bogen tripod with that huge RRS Ballhead, shot with tungsten light, under controlled conditions. Maybe it's just my particular bod(ies), but others have reported this as well. It doesn't take a Lab Coat to feel a camera body lunging in your hands; only a working photographer who shoots regularly.

Nick's suggestion to introduce the mirror delay has certainly eased the problem, but it introduces new doubt when shooting people, when looking for fleeting facial expressions. You set it too high, and you're creeping uncomfortably close to Mamiya645 performance.

And again, I ain't "bashing" anybody. I'm just calling them as I see them. I'd complain about Canon or Nikon if it did the same thing, (but it doesn't). My advice: If you own an H, you ought to also own a solid tripod, and learn how to set up the User Button to raise the mirror. What was infuriating to me was: I realized I'd just laid out tens of thousands of dollars for a "medium format solution" that REQUIRED me shooting with a tripod. That's fine, if you're a studio photographer, but grim news if you're a location guy. I'd, in effect, spent big money on a view camera. Not good.

[David Grover / Capture One]

Regarding the H system, is there an on-camera flash unit that fully talks to the H body? In the old days, there was that Hasselblad flash that hooked up to the 203FE body so well. It looked kinda like that Quantum Q Flash, in way.

When I look on this page:

http://www.hasselbladusa.com/products/lens...ccessories.aspx

I don't see a flash unit. Could you use the old unit? Are there downsides to it? (And please, no recommendations to use the professional pop-up flash in the viewfinder). Thanks.

Metz SCA 3002.

Works with compatible Metz units.

[gwhitf]

Metz SCA 3002.

Thank you, David. I'll look for one now.

[Nick-T]

Never mind..

[gwhitf]

George I think you exaggerate here's a crop taken at 1/30th available with the 100 @ 2.2:

Yeah, that's one frame, but show us the next four frames after that, that show camera shake. I had some sharp ones too, but nothing that instilled enough confidence that I'd go into a paying job, knowing that I had to deliver consistent frames. And there's no raising the mirror when you're shooting people.

And was that frame from an H1 or H2 with the Mirror Delay turned off completely?

Was it shot on a tripod, or just handheld? (Isnt' that you, bent over a Bogen, with the CA-magenta fringing in her reflections?)

I'm on your side, Nick, you know that. And even David's too. I love the H in so many ways. But with money on the table, no amount of Photoshop/post can fix camera shake. And you just know, with Murphy's Law, that one frame that the client "just loves" is the one with camera shake. We've all been there -- nobody wants to shoot a job with the same odds as rolling the dice in Vegas. In the end, my loyalty is with the guy that writes me the check; not the guy that sells me my tools.

[BrianSmith]

Was it shot on a tripod, or just handheld? (Isnt' that you, bent over a Bogen, with the CA-magenta fringing in her reflections?)

Gwyneth,

You never heard of an Eyevatar?

[gwhitf]

Now Nick's gone and gotten his feelings hurt.

But in defense of Hasselblad, and to counter my bashing, I did a little experiment tonight, just to remind myself of the viewfinder issue. To see how nice the viewfinder is on the H, set up two (or three) tripods next to each other, close. On Tripod 1, mount an H body with an 80. On tripod 2, mount a 5D2 with a 50. One tripod 3, if you have it, stick on a 1ds3 with a 50. With all cameras, roughly frame up the scene. Then move your eye from one camera to the next, and then watch your jaw drop when you look through the viewfinder of the H body. It's a joy to look thru, each and every time.

I am working on the rendering of the new H vertical grip too. It'll be unveiled shortly.

[David Grover / Capture One]

Now Nick's gone and gotten his feelings hurt.

But in defense of Hasselblad, and to counter my bashing, I did a little experiment tonight, just to remind myself of the viewfinder issue. To see how nice the viewfinder is on the H, set up two (or three) tripods next to each other, close. On Tripod 1, mount an H body with an 80. On tripod 2, mount a 5D2 with a 50. One tripod 3, if you have it, stick on a 1ds3 with a 50. With all cameras, roughly frame up the scene. Then move your eye from one camera to the next, and then watch your jaw drop when you look through the viewfinder of the H body. It's a joy to look thru, each and every time.

I am working on the rendering of the new H vertical grip too. It'll be unveiled shortly.

I would guess not hurt feelings, but more likely irritation.

But yes, thankyou for identifying the viewfinder experience.