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Author Topic: A way to focus a tethered DB on a 4x5 camera  (Read 2883 times)

BrianWoolf

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A way to focus a tethered DB on a 4x5 camera
« on: October 30, 2009, 10:40:11 am »

Hello, I stumbled across an easy way to achieve critical focus on a tethered 4x5 view camera. I am a studio photographer that uses a Leaf Valeo 17wi( must be tethered to a computer to work) on a sinar p with a Phase sliding back and Live View dongle.

I had to do a job that required large reasonably high quality photos of diamond rings. I wound up using Helicon Focus to combine in focus slices of a ring. I tried a 'blind' focus - in the ground glass I focused on the very top of the ring, made an exposure and determined the top of the ring was in focus - at this point, with the focus knob, I racked the back standard with the DB on it down a little bit, it barely moved, a smidgen, a touch, took another exposure and by the third exposure the shoulder of the ring was now sharp, 8 to 12 exposures the whole ring was done. It assembled very well, the shots were good.

Soon afterward, in my normal workflow I decided to try this trick/solution. You know how it is - yesterday everything was in focus, today you can't focus at all, everything looks soft, yet it the same camera, lens, lights and set. You refocus and refocus - sometime it works, sometimes it doesn't.

I shoot 8.5x11 pages of jewelry to reproduce a 8.5x11 - 100% on the page. The jewelry is set up on a 12" high box and the camera/DB is about 7' off the floor and parallel to the floor, it is very difficult to focus this arrangement. I now do a rough ground glass focus, first - then take an exposure and check the highest ring on the page in my 100% window in LC11 software. I might decide that the top of the ring is sharp but I am not happy with the bottom of the ring and the background it's on. I simple rack the back standard down a touch, take another exposure and big surprise(the first time) it's all in focus. I then check the top and bottom of the page with the 100% window to make sure the whole page is good. Sometimes I might have rather large/high bangles and I can easily check if they can make focus, moving the DB up or down slightly to fine tune the focus, might increase the f-stop a half a stop if they don't make focus, take another exposure and check the 100% window, move it around to check the whole page. No more climbing a ladder multiple times, opening the lens, sliding the back across. I find this trick/solution to be easy, and very accurate and lots faster than repeated ground glass focusing.

I use this technique on almost all my photos. Don't use Live View much at all. One GG focus and the rest is this 'blind' focus adjustment that works terrific, Sure there are times that I rack the back standard/DB in the wrong direction and see in the 100% window that the type on the bottle is softer that the first  exposure, I just make two small adjustments in the other direction and bang on focus. Even if I do this focus trick 4 to 6 times it is easy.

Since the sinar p is a 'self locking' focusing camera, this technique works well, on a locking camera this might not work at all. Could work on a Hasselblad or any Alpa, Cambo Wide Ds type camera that has a focusing ring. Could be used outside with a newer Phase or Leaf back as long as you can see your focus point at 100% on your lcd - that might be very difficult in bright sunlight.

Good Luck,
Brian Woolf
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Dick Roadnight

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A way to focus a tethered DB on a 4x5 camera
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2009, 11:23:13 am »

Quote
easy way to achieve critical focus on a tethered 4x5..   sinar p ..   view camera... reasonably high quality photos of diamond rings... I wound up using Helicon Focus to combine in focus slices of a ring... I shoot 8.5x11 pages of jewelry to reproduce a 8.5x11 - 100% on the page
I am thinking of setting up to do this type of work, and macro up to 25 to 1 and probably also micro.

The Apo digitar Macro is good for up to 2 or 3 to 1, and after that you need specialist macro lenses to make a half decent job of it, and critical slice focusing.

Does anyone make digital macro lenses for 10 or 20 to one?

What is the lowest magnification you can get out of a microscope?

Can you get laptop-controlable robotic focusing for a microscope?

As a mechanical, computer and software engineer... if I cannot buy a system for robotic focusing I will set it up myself.
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Hasselblad H4, Sinar P3 monorail view camera, Schneider Apo-digitar lenses

Doug Peterson

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A way to focus a tethered DB on a 4x5 camera
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2009, 06:20:13 pm »

Quote from: Dick Roadnight
I am thinking of setting up to do this type of work, and macro up to 25 to 1 and probably also micro.

The Apo digitar Macro is good for up to 2 or 3 to 1, and after that you need specialist macro lenses to make a half decent job of it, and critical slice focusing.

Does anyone make digital macro lenses for 10 or 20 to one?

What is the lowest magnification you can get out of a microscope?

Can you get laptop-controlable robotic focusing for a microscope?

As a mechanical, computer and software engineer... if I cannot buy a system for robotic focusing I will set it up myself.

Dick, see my article on our blog: http://www.captureintegration.com/category/the-techie/

Doug Peterson
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Dick Roadnight

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A way to focus a tethered DB on a 4x5 camera
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2009, 05:30:18 am »

Quote from: dougpetersonci
Dick, see my article on our blog: http://www.captureintegration.com/category/the-techie/
Hi Doug - are you talking about you macro bug-eye article (which I have read, but could not find)?

I remember that it was two of us here that told you how to do that, using a micrometer stage or a linear actuator to move the subject rather than moving or focusing the camera?
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Hasselblad H4, Sinar P3 monorail view camera, Schneider Apo-digitar lenses

Doug Peterson

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A way to focus a tethered DB on a 4x5 camera
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2009, 03:46:24 pm »

Quote from: Dick Roadnight
Hi Doug - are you talking about you macro bug-eye article (which I have read, but could not find)?

I remember that it was two of us here that told you how to do that, using a micrometer stage or a linear actuator to move the subject rather than moving or focusing the camera?

In fact it was! You guys were very helpful. I was in a rush when I linked you before, but I meant it as a "hey look what I got done using your advice" sort of thank you. The micrometer stage was exactly what I needed. I spoke with a few companies including Tarsia Technical Instruments who said they'd be happy to make an automated stage for the several to many thousand dollar range which would step the subject (or capture system or both) and trigger the capture as many times as desired in as small of increments as I cared to ask for. Since I was able to create a capture system with no moving parts (the digital back is capable of exposing without mechanical movement of any kind) this sort of automated system would in theory allow pretty exquisite precision for later stacking in Helicon.

http://www.captureintegration.com/2009/08/25/extreme-macro/
http://www.captureintegration.com/2009/08/...-macro-results/

From my research I'd suggest Leica Photar or Schneider enlarging lenses for the range of 10-20X. I was working mostly around 7-8X, but some of the Photars would work at those higher mags. As you know you'll have to be very careful about diffraction since the effective aperture (as concerns bellows-loss of light and diffraction) when working at high magnification are much much higher than the marked aperture. Also (as you probably also know but I'm saying for other people reading this) that you'll also want to be very careful about using the lenses very close to their optimal magnification as performance (when using a very high resolution capture) drops off very quickly at lower or higher levels of magnification.

Doug Peterson
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BernardLanguillier

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A way to focus a tethered DB on a 4x5 camera
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2009, 06:29:19 pm »

Quote from: BrianWoolf
Since the sinar p is a 'self locking' focusing camera, this technique works well, on a locking camera this might not work at all. Could work on a Hasselblad or any Alpa, Cambo Wide Ds type camera that has a focusing ring. Could be used outside with a newer Phase or Leaf back as long as you can see your focus point at 100% on your lcd - that might be very difficult in bright sunlight.

As far as I know, none of the current backs offer live view in back, they all require tethered shooting to do so.

Cheers,
Bernard

BrianWoolf

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A way to focus a tethered DB on a 4x5 camera
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2009, 10:50:22 pm »

Quote from: BernardLanguillier
As far as I know, none of the current backs offer live view in back, they all require tethered shooting to do so.

Cheers,
Bernard
Bernard,
As far as I know you are absolutely correct in saying that there is no live "Live View" in any current medium format digital back.

I might have confused you or not been clear enough. I did mention live view but that was the Leaf Live View dongle and I said how I use it very little as the blind focusing trick works very well.

In the above paragraph that you highlighted. I suggested that this focusing trick might work on a Cambo Wide DS camera that is not tethered to a computer and is being used outdoors, if you are able to see the back's lcd screen in daylight, enough to check your focus point. It would work like this, you focus(I am not sure of how you actually focus these cameras), take your first exposure, you then check your image on the back's lcd screen and zoom up to a 100% view and check your focus point. If you feel that it is out of focus, you try this blind focus trick, moving the focus ring on your lens very slightly forward or back, then taking a second exposure and checking it. If still not sharp, you might have gone in the wrong direction and need to go in the opposite direction and take a third of fourth exposure. This hinges on being able to judge your focus on your back's lcd screen in daylight, which seems to be very difficult from what i read. There is no "Live View" involved.

Brian Woolf
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