Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Photoshop grumps  (Read 3414 times)

ejnewman

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 58
Photoshop grumps
« on: October 25, 2009, 02:37:24 pm »

My first post and Im afraid Im gonna start with a moan, I am British at the end of the day! Its Adobe. Im sorry but I am really disappointed in them, here is why:

1. lack of 16bit editing accuracy - try setting your grey to be 50%, or exactly 20% 16bit black. An example of why this is important: using Photoshop to create displacement maps for 3D rendering requires 50% grey to be exact otherwise offsets occur to the displaced object.
2. lack of batch rendering options, example. for camera raw conversions. Why cant a batch log be created for raw conversions in multiple directories that can be run overnight? An example would be after a days shoot you come back with 500 images all sub sectioned into directories, with each directory requiring a unique process. These batched folders could then be launched for overnight rendering instead of the machine being locked up one directory at a time.
3. lack of automatic recognition of exposure sets for hdr merge, no batch option either.
4. lack of net rendering to a farm - would help for all of the above, useful if there is a vast amount to process and the user doesnt want to lock out their workstation.
5. lack of lens calibration setups using proper lens dewarp profiles, created by shooting lens grids, and no ability to automatically apply presets based on exif data in ACR. For example I calibrate a lens throughout its f-stop range for vignetting, but this profile has to be selected manually by the user - why cant it be set by the exif automatically?
6. lack of 32 bit output from ACR so you can push the raw into clipping values and still retain the information in the float output.
7. lack of node editing workflow for example multiple masks can be attached to the same node/layer, the same levels can be applied to multiple nodes/layers without having to duplicate. You can do this in other apps.
8. lack of proper filter layers, current smart filter implementation is slow and lacks the ability to pass multiple layers through the same filter.
9. lack of a script editor window inside photoshop, instead of the standalone editor and the clunky "script listener", this would help introduce a better interface and more unified workflow to Photoshop scripting.
10. lack of python scripting language which would be useful as a more universal scripting language alongside javascript.
11. lack of lazy mouse to smooth brush strokes for smoother lines, available as a feature in Pixologic Zbrush.
12. lack of command-line control - this would enhance scripting and batch ability.
13. lack of floating licenses - I cant tell you how frustrating this is when you have a team of artists that dont always need to use Photoshop, but you have to either purchase it for everyone, or hot swap workstations, nightmare.


I dont need animated scroll and zooms, and although there seem to be nice features coming in CS5 like object recognition for transformations, I feel these points are more important, especially considering the vast majority of compositing apps out there can do all of this stuff already, such as Shake and Nuke.

What does everybody else think?
« Last Edit: October 25, 2009, 04:50:47 pm by ejnewman »
Logged

Mark D Segal

  • Contributor
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12512
    • http://www.markdsegal.com
Photoshop grumps
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2009, 03:53:43 pm »

I think you should "shake" and "nuke" - it's not the end of the day here and I'm Canadian.  

Seriously though, if you feel that strongly about these things, join the Adobe Forum and submit them as new feature requests. Unlike you've (not) done here, you will have to tell them why you think each one of these things is important and worthwhile engeineering into Photoshop.
Logged
Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....."

ejnewman

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 58
Photoshop grumps
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2009, 04:52:52 pm »

I have added some more detail to hopefully express what Im trying to get at. I will follow up with Adobe as MarkDS suggests...
Logged

Eric Myrvaagnes

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 22814
  • http://myrvaagnes.com
    • http://myrvaagnes.com
Photoshop grumps
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2009, 05:25:16 pm »

It sounds to me as if you wish to double the size of Photoshop and quadruple its price by adding a feature set that is likely to be of use to 0.01% of PS users. But i have no objection if Adobe wants to offer a Super-sized version at extra cost.

Pay attention to Mark's advice.

Logged
-Eric Myrvaagnes (visit my website: http://myrvaagnes.com)

ejnewman

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 58
Photoshop grumps
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2009, 06:02:49 pm »

It's a fair point that I'm comparing to compositing apps that are in a vastly more expensive price range to PS not to mention the fact that the lens profiling plug-in for shake is more than the cost of shake alone. If Adobe wanted to add in some of these options like net rendering and a node based UI it would be fair enough for them to offer it as a more expensive option, I would be interested what others here think about what else I have listed though, I don't think it would be as little as 0.01% who would agree with some of what I have mentioned.

Don't get me wrong I love photoshop and I wouldn't be able to replace it with shake or nuke as it does so much these apps don't do (and never will as they are for compositing) I'm just speaking out my wish list, not meaning to offend.
Logged

Mark D Segal

  • Contributor
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12512
    • http://www.markdsegal.com
Photoshop grumps
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2009, 07:38:44 pm »

I didn't think for a moment you were trying to offend. But the point Eric raises is exactly what Adobe must consider before any new ideas gain traction. I think the present climate in Adobe is that Photoshop is bloated enough, and they have a hell of a time trying to delete legacy features in order to add new ones while constraining bloat - because they're legacy and there's a loud constituency for every feature - it's like government spending. Still, no harm making a carefully argued case to them for each one of them - you'd need more than a bullet-point on each to be convincing. This is a mature application managed by very savvy people who have a clear oversight of what else is out there in the imaging market.
Logged
Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....."

Schewe

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6229
    • http:www.schewephoto.com
Photoshop grumps
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2009, 09:49:20 pm »

Quote from: ejnewman
My first post and Im afraid Im gonna start with a moan, I am British at the end of the day! Its Adobe. Im sorry but I am really disappointed in them, here is why:
...SNIP a lot of Pissin&Moaning™
What does everybody else think?

I think you may need to establish: who you are, what you know and why we should give a hoot what YOU might think before posting a laundry list of stuff that ain't gonna get any traction here. Oh, there are a couple of guys here who may have the ear of Adobe (or work there) but as an introductory post I think you've left out a lot of WHY in your post.

Also note that now, a full year into the development of the "next version of Photoshop" is pretty much in the dead-zone of product development. Adobe isn't looking for stuff to ADD to the CS5 feature set, they are looking for things to cut (if past experience is any guide).

Naw, what I think is you better be prepared to spend some quality time proving you have something useful to contribute before you can expect to have much impact. Course, that's just my humble opinion, take it for what it's worth...

:~)
Logged

ejnewman

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 58
Photoshop grumps
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2009, 03:50:10 am »

Guys I was only looking to see if others out there had similar wish lists to me, I thought I was being constructive not just "pissing and moaning" Im not expecting Adobe to read this thread. I was actually making light to the fact that I was posting a moan (at the end of the day I am British  bit... Maybe I just came across too seriously. If others agreed with some points then maybe I would follow it up and get in touch with Adobe. Schewe - Im not suggesting it should be considered for CS5. I see your point about bloating, maybe some of these features could be added to Lightroom or as an additional app, like the batch function maybe...

Some credentials:

I am a supervisor at MPC - www.moving-picture.com where I have worked on the visual effects for films such as Harry Potter, Charlie and The Chocolate Factory, 10,000 BC, Narnia, GI Joe to name a few. I look after a team of 35 artists, all of whom use Photoshop daily, and often take part in location stills shoots for photogrammetry, set stills shoots, actor shoots and set supervision. I have been using Photoshop since version 2.5, and I am a keen landscape photographer in my spare time.

Thanks for all the input guys, points noted.










Logged

Schewe

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6229
    • http:www.schewephoto.com
Photoshop grumps
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2009, 04:07:03 pm »

Quote from: ejnewman
I am a supervisor at MPC - www.moving-picture.com where I have worked on the visual effects for films such as...


Ahh, from the film biz...that explains it. Been there done that...it's the way you folk walk into a room :~)

So, presuming you might have half a clue about what you are asking, let's just examine item 1...

Quote
1. lack of 16bit editing accuracy - try setting your grey to be 50%, or exactly 20% 16bit black

Don't know how YOU spec a color but if I want a 50% gray I click on the foreground color picker and enter 50% in the HSB amounts. Alternatively you could enter 128 in each of the RGB fields. But that's not really all that accurate since it's not in 16 bit (and you are asking for 16 bit accuracy, right?)

BTW, you do realize that "16 bit" in Photoshop isn't actually 16 bit, it's 15 bit plus one level. You can take it up with Thomas Knoll if you would like but there are computational reasons that Photoshop doesn't actually use the full 16 bit but the odds of Photoshop changing from 15+1bits to 16bits is exactly zero (as in ain't gonna happen).

None the less, if you fill with a 50% brightness, I'm getting a reading of 16384 (50% Brightness). Not sure why that isn't accurate enough...

All the rest of the complaints regarding batching, render farms, node editing and command line ain't gonna get much traction in a forum dedicated to landscape photographers. What you are feeling is the direct result of an industry (CGI) adopting Photoshop for their own use and wishing for higher end functionality way beyond the needs of the vast majority of the Photoshop user base. Your industry is simply too small (in seats) to have the kind of pull that would be required to make such massive changes to the code base to enable any of that sort of stuff. Ain't gonna happen in our lifetimes...
Logged

ejnewman

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 58
Photoshop grumps
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2009, 07:22:19 pm »

Quote from: Schewe
So, presuming you might have half a clue about what you are asking, let's just examine item 1...

Ah... so your slowly getting nicer, thats a start  I forgot what life can be like on web forums.

The 16bit accuracy point refers to when you want to transform an already set value to a specific value in 16bit (or 15bit+ or whatever it is) you cannot specify this down to a degree thats 16bit accurate, I did not explain myself properly there, apologies. But as you mention this point is more specific to my field not necessarily landscape photography.

Your comments are all very valid and I'm simply asking the wrong forum.

Logged

Schewe

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6229
    • http:www.schewephoto.com
Photoshop grumps
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2009, 08:43:33 pm »

Quote from: ejnewman
Your comments are all very valid and I'm simply asking the wrong forum.


Well you did have some other useful mentions in amongst the vast litany...

Don't be at all surprised so see some movement in lens corrections....can't really say much other than the fact that Camera Raw 5.5 and LR 2.5 already do auto lens corrections for a few cameras so Adobe already knows how to profile lenses and do that.

As far as the license complaint...if you have a multi-seat license (and if you have more than 5 you should have) you should be able to do all sorts of on/off with various machines but that's a biz issue not a technical or creative issue–take it up with customer support.

I consulted for a short time with Disney Animation just about the time of Photoshop 7 (before the animation department was killed) when Disney killed "Disney Paint" which was a massive development project that cost untold amounts of money that was eventually killed because Photoshop 7 came out an allowed "16bit" painting...some of the things Disney Paint was going to do mimics some of the features you are talking about...particularly multi-node editing and farm based rendering...(they were also into python scripting as well as I recall). Their biggest complaint about Photoshop 7 was that Adobe failed to make a Linux version...

But the fact is while it ain't perfect, Photoshop is so darn useful even as it is that it's natural for other industries to try to bend Photoshop development toward their way of thinking. And that ain't easy...(as I can attest since I've been an alpha tester since version 4.0)


Now, if you have some thoughts that might impact the landscape photographers in the group, let's hear them!
Logged

rovanpera

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 70
Photoshop grumps
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2009, 08:53:58 pm »

Is anyone using After Effects + Photoshop for print work?

AE has quite good psd support, and the layering is more flexible than PS, thou not as flexible as with a node based compositing. Also the support for 3D render passes is much better than with PS.
Logged

ejnewman

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 58
Photoshop grumps
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2009, 04:08:51 am »

Quote from: Schewe
Now, if you have some thoughts that might impact the landscape photographers in the group, let's hear them!

Well actually apart from points 1, 4 and 13 all the rest still apply to my landscape photography workflow. I know there is a good knowledge base on these forums and wanted to see if anybody else had a similar wish list.
Logged

Jeremy Payne

  • Guest
Photoshop grumps
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2009, 07:52:22 am »

Quote from: ejnewman
Well actually apart from points 1, 4 and 13 all the rest still apply to my landscape photography workflow. I know there is a good knowledge base on these forums and wanted to see if anybody else had a similar wish list.
For what purpose do you require Python in your landscape workflow? ... just curious ...

Thanks!
Logged

ejnewman

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 58
Photoshop grumps
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2009, 09:21:05 am »

I guess that one is slightly lower down the scale, many apps are including python in an attempt to create a universal scripting language, and I know a lot of people that know it, it would be great if PS adopted it too.  I do acknowledge it has JavaScript though.
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up