44" Z3200PS printer and digital negatives

[felix5616]

I have a 44" HP Z3200PS printer. I would like to try my hand at creating digital B+W negatives for contact printing in my darkroom. What material is used and how complicated/difficult is the process? I would like to hear from anyone, especially those that actually do this type of printing.

[EricWHiss]

I'm starting up this path as well and thought I'd revive this old post... anyone done this?

[dunesurfer]

Hi,I can help here.Try to look up,PLATINUM PRINTING.
The Z3200 was actually developt with this in mind.There,s also a tutorial out from HP on doing large format negatives.

http://h30507.www3.hp.com/t5/Professional-Photography/Creating-a-Large-Format-Photo-Negative-on-an-HP-Designjet-Z3200/ba-p/101525

http://www.shutterbug.com/content/hp%E2%80%99s-large-format-photo-negative-solution-black-and-white-photo-prints

[deanwork]

Is there a workflow yet for the Z3100?

[EricWHiss]

Great thanks.  I'm interested in hearing from people what media they use for the negatives and any practicable tips in working with these.  For example how does one hold large negatives flat?

[Ernst Dinkla]

Is there a workflow yet for the Z3100?

This is the man to ask:
Manuel Angel Alberran Moyo
What I recalled was that it would not fit the Z3100 but later on the answers were more positive.

and here are more messages on the subject
http://www.dpug.org/forums/f8/new-video-regarding-hp-design-jet-digital-negatives-2039/index2.html#post15208

There was a short thread here and on other lists when Harald announced this Z feature. A hobby project of Angel not something HP did but he worked (s) at HP Barcelona.

The manual is on my table again for some weeks as there was an interest in the artists graphic workshop that I founded to use it for Toyobo plates and Heliogravure. I have to rely on consistency in their print process to make it work which worries me a bit.


met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst
Shareware too:
330+ paper white spectral plots:
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm

[hanzo]

I read a book titled Digital Negatives, by Brad Hinkel.
Quite informative, but I haven't try it because I can't get my hands on the chemicals.. yet 

[EricWHiss]

Thanks all for the info so far.  I've some more questions:

1) Which film is recommended for silver gelatin process:    I see pictorico ULP100 film,  Inkpress transparency film, and some HP Clear Polyester films but not the HP Premium clear backlit film that is recommended on the HP page tech bulletin page. 

2) Are people adding grain to their files? 

[MonsterBaby]

Hi Eric,

i used to only own a 31 and did a lot of research on the negative printing. hard to find any information.. it looks like everything there is is collected here now!

as far as my research went there is no way to do it with a 31!... at least not for platinum printing. its the green ink that has this super perfect UV light blocking. so the oms for the 32 only! uses black and green ink for the negativ. of course you can just print negative black and white like with any printer and see if the dmax will be enough for normal silver prints.

but.. the thing is about platinum prints.

there is a whole tutorial about how to set everything up. if you need it let me know. i will look around.

about the material: i started using a repro UV seperation film.. the printing worked and some tests with silver prints.. BUT.. i havent gotten to the platinum yet as it is sOOOOO much work!!
even with the plug in and paper set and manual.. you have to make soooo much testing.. you print different linearizations and have to actually do platinum prints with them ..
i will do it.. but later ;-)

the thing is.. platinum requires hard kontrast as it will become smooth. the tests i did for silver were way too hard and even on the softest papers not printable. better then the other way around. i suppose.

i didnt add grain. i couldnt see pixels.. it looked cool. i just didnt see more use in doing it for silver prints as i can just use an enlarger for my negs which i cant for platinum

[Damir]

Why not use black & white print toned to green?? Will the green on the print be made with green ink or some other combination of inks? On my 3100 it seems that printer do not use green ink at all, in 4 years it use less that a half of cart.

When doing silver printing you can build density difference by adding red, if you remember darkroom paper made from silver are not sensitive to red light.

[MonsterBaby]

like i said.. there is DEF a difference between silver and platinum!!.. the hp solution is referring to platinum.. and thats about UV light only!.. and the linearity of the green ink for UV light opacity!!

like you said.. how do you want to print using green ink if your printer never uses it ?? ;-)

you are abs. right.. the 31 uses a lot less of the RGB inks then the 32.. they changed the colorsettings a lot..

and the negative preset for platinum uses only!!! green and black..

there are numerous ideas about printing negatives (even with epsons brrrr ) online.. just a lot of testing.. but basically for silver print.. you just need to ajust a curve to your negative images!.. print on film.. bum.. the thing is.. you have to get your printer linearilized for the throughput of light.. THATs the work

[dunesurfer]

I have some nice links to platinum printing,from mixing your own chemicals to chemicsl bought.Contact me via email,and wil be more then happy to share them with you

[MonsterBaby]

im very intersted in those!.. i cant see your email.. would like to share some info on using the PS driver for some plat neg advice ;-)

[neile]

I've done several rounds of digital neg/alt process work. Although I'm printing on a Canon iPF8300 the process with the HP should be the same*.

The standard transparency film to use for this work is Pictorico OHP. I've never met a digital neg person that uses something else. I'm by far an expert in this stuff, but my process has been:

1) Use ChartThrob to print a test chart, then take it into the darkroom and do a physical print of it using your desired process.
2) Measure the results of ChartThrob in Photoshop to get your curve
3) Take your finished B&W image into Photoshop, flip it horizontally, apply curve, then invert
4) Print digital neg
5) Print in darkroom

It doesn't matter what ICC profile you use for the printout in step #1 and #3 as long as you stay consistent.

Here are a bunch of blog entries I wrote following my relatively recent lith printing explorations using digital negatives. The first is probably the most useful as it goes into details of steps 1-4 above.

http://www.danecreek.com/blog/2011/11/28/preparing-to-lith-print-again.html
http://www.danecreek.com/blog/2011/11/30/digital-negative-lith-print-results.html
http://www.danecreek.com/blog/2011/12/02/more-digital-negative-lith-printing.html
http://www.danecreek.com/blog/2011/12/04/one-image-seven-lith-interpretations.html
http://www.danecreek.com/blog/2011/12/04/slavich-unibrom-is-some-funky-paper.html

Hope this helps,

Neil

* I think I've heard that some HP printers can have a hard time detecting the transparency paper in the printer. Not sure if that's the case with yours.

[MonsterBaby]

thanx neile! awesome practicle advice!

its no problem with the Z printers to use transparancy.

have you done platinum as well?

[EricWHiss]

So no one using a Z3200 and the process and OMS presets made specially for digital negatives? 

Mostly I want to hear from people using the Z3200 and the special preset.  HP makes one for negatives to be used for silver gelatin and a separate one for platinum.   I plan to start with the silver first....
   

[neile]

I personally haven't done platinum, but I have a friend that's done it many times (printing with an Epson) and the process is the same as I outlined. One additional, optional, step is to identify an ink colour that has better UV blocking characteristics than black. This isn't really necessary for the visible light processes (like lith).

As to Eric's comment, I personally would go through the process of developing my own curves since there are so many variables involved (type of lights you're using, emulsion, paper, etc.). Unless, of course, the HP profiles strictly relate to amount of ink laydown and feed rate of the transparency film.

Neil

[MonsterBaby]

i have never heard that there are 2 different ones!.. HP is always referring to the platinum one and to the UV block of the green inks.

thanks neile for the input!.. the process with the hp preset is the same than what you are describing!

the only difference and THE speciality of that preset and hp (if it is soooo important or not?) is that the preset only uses green and black.. the rest is like you name it!

you still have to print your patches.. all done through APS.. and then do platinum testing.. and adjust the densities.. you are suposed to get a very linear output. because of the green .. thats it.

[EricWHiss]

That's interesting and good information. 

So is it worth it?  I mean if you go through this trouble is the print more appealing?

[neile]

For me? Yes. Lith prints are a look I can't replicate digitally (I've tried). But honesetly, it's fun to do. That's all that matters to me

Neil