Fuji 680 and P1 Digital Backs

[nik]

Can anyone explain why the Fuji 680 has to be used with a OneShot release system with PhaseOne backs and not with Sinar/Hasselblad(Imacon) backs?  I find it to be a cumbersome solution and wanted to know if there's a better solution out there for this fine camera system when used with a phaseone (P25) back.

Regards,

Nik

[Dick Roadnight]

Can anyone explain why the Fuji 680 has to be used with a OneShot release system with PhaseOne backs and not with Sinar/Hasselblad(Imacon) backs?  I find it to be a cumbersome solution and wanted to know if there's a better solution out there for this fine camera system when used with a phaseone (P25) back.

Regards,

Nik

Basically Hasselblad=Fuji are in competition with Phase, and they both want a big share of the back market... what they seem not to realise that the market would be bigger (more people would buy MFD) if systems were more compatible.

[David Grover / Capture One]

Basically Hasselblad=Fuji are in competition with Phase, and they both want a big share of the back market... what they seem not to realise that the market would be bigger (more people would buy MFD) if systems were more compatible.

Dick,

This has nothing to do with it and a rather inflamatory statement.

It is more to do with the way the different manufacurers flush the sensor data.

It is not my place or intention to speak for Phase One but suffice to say the OP is correct in saying we do not need the Kapture Group solution or indeed wake up cables in other situations.

Best,

David.

[digitalcameraman]

Can anyone explain why the Fuji 680 has to be used with a OneShot release system with PhaseOne backs and not with Sinar/Hasselblad(Imacon) backs?  I find it to be a cumbersome solution and wanted to know if there's a better solution out there for this fine camera system when used with a phaseone (P25) back.

Regards,

Nik

Very simple. The Phase One H5,10,20,25,P20,P25,P30,P45 have a Kodak CCD that uses "sleep technology" so they must be woken up prior to capture. On Hasselbad V, Hasselblad H, Mamiya, P1 645 camera bodies, the camera body facilitates doing this as the capture is released.

When you use these backs on technical cameras, Cambowide, Alpa, and Fuji GX series the chip must receive a wake up call prior to the image being captured. Keith Hughes, owner from Kapture Group designed all of these One Shot cable releases so they would do that in one shot. The other method would be to shoot the camera twice within 5 sec. This gets to be a pain. The Fuji release is also designed to allow for time exposures so there is a control box to set your shutter speed so the back is in sync with the digital back.

Phase One also makes a cable release they call a short out cable which has a small button on it. You would press the button to wake up the camera back and then release the capture. As you can imagine if you shoot all day this becomes a pain.

Phase One P40 and P65 use Dasal sensors , not Kodak, so they are energized at all times and do not use sleep architecture, therefore allowing them to work in one shot without a third party release. Sinar backs that use this same sensor would also work without a one shot release.

I have hundreds of these installed with many cameras and they work very well.

[Dick Roadnight]

Dick,
It is more to do with the way the different manufacurers flush the sensor data.
David.

Thank you, David - would you like all digital backs to be compatible with all MFD cameras? ... and would it be possible? ... and do you think it would encourage more photographers to migrate to MF?

[Dick Roadnight]

Phase One P40 and P65 use Dasal sensors , not Kodak, so they are energized at all times and do not use sleep architecture, therefore allowing them to work in one shot without a third party release. Sinar backs that use this same sensor would also work without a one shot release.

Now that Hasselblad (with the 60) are switching to Dalsa, does this have implications re the battery charge life (in hours or exposures)?

[David Grover / Capture One]

Very simple. The Phase One H5,10,20,25,P20,P25,P30,P45 have a Kodak CCD that uses "sleep technology" so they must be woken up prior to capture. On Hasselbad V, Hasselblad H, Mamiya, P1 645 camera bodies, the camera body facilitates doing this as the capture is released....

The Kodak CCd`s do not by default posess this technology.  ie.  It is not a requirement to flush the sensor in this way.

Therefore even though all Hasselblad products  are based on Kodak CCDs except for the H4D60, they do not require a wake up cable.  There have been some cases with certain copal shutters where a pre release is necessary but normally it is not necessary.  As in the case with the Fuji GX680.

David

[David Grover / Capture One]

Thank you, David - would you like all digital backs to be compatible with all MFD cameras? ... and would it be possible? ... and do you think it would encourage more photographers to migrate to MF?

I don't believe this is possible without limiting precision, quality or functionality.

[David Grover / Capture One]

Now that Hasselblad (with the 60) are switching to Dalsa, does this have implications re the battery charge life (in hours or exposures)?

We use Kodak and Dalsa sensors.  We are not 'switching'.

Dalsa does not necessarily have a lower power consumption.  It varies from sensor to sensor.

David

[eleanorbrown]

I'm going to respectfully make a kind of "bottom line" post here...maybe simplifying too much for some but here's what I think.  I currently use an H2 camera system with wonderful H lenses with a Phase P65+ digital back with Sensor Plus.  I use Capture One for RAW processing which includes custom corrections for various H lenses.  The lenses are so good I seldom use the corrections but they are there if I need them.  I will put my digital files up against any integrated camera system....HD3 or 4, Phase One camera and Phase backs, and so on.  I can guarantee you that my files from a "mixed" system are as good as any integrated system out there. Eleanor

[nik]

Chris, thank you for answering my question and for staying on topic.

Thread closed.

-N

Very simple. The Phase One H5,10,20,25,P20,P25,P30,P45 have a Kodak CCD that uses "sleep technology" so they must be woken up prior to capture. On Hasselbad V, Hasselblad H, Mamiya, P1 645 camera bodies, the camera body facilitates doing this as the capture is released.

When you use these backs on technical cameras, Cambowide, Alpa, and Fuji GX series the chip must receive a wake up call prior to the image being captured. Keith Hughes, owner from Kapture Group designed all of these One Shot cable releases so they would do that in one shot. The other method would be to shoot the camera twice within 5 sec. This gets to be a pain. The Fuji release is also designed to allow for time exposures so there is a control box to set your shutter speed so the back is in sync with the digital back.

Phase One also makes a cable release they call a short out cable which has a small button on it. You would press the button to wake up the camera back and then release the capture. As you can imagine if you shoot all day this becomes a pain.

Phase One P40 and P65 use Dasal sensors , not Kodak, so they are energized at all times and do not use sleep architecture, therefore allowing them to work in one shot without a third party release. Sinar backs that use this same sensor would also work without a one shot release.

I have hundreds of these installed with many cameras and they work very well.

[Doug Peterson]

I think there was some confusion on this thread between the Fuji GX680 and Fuji GX645 and their relationship to the H2/H3 and how those bodies do or don't work with Phase One backs.

The Fuji GX645 is the equivalent of the Hasselblad H2 and requires no wakeup cable and was made before Hasselblad closed their system. The H3 is a closed system which includes firmware which does not allow the camera to operate unless a Hasselblad back is mounted and so will not work with a Phase back even with a wakeup cable.

The Fuji GX680 (I, II, III) is a film era semi-large-format system with tilts and swings built in. It was/is a cool system except it has no lenses which are very wide when using a 645 (or smaller) sensor. The reason it requires the one-shot system with the Kodak-chip Phase backs is because it was designed before the digital backs and does not include the proper electronic signals to deliver the wake-up signal for these digital backs.

In other words it has nothing to do with Hasselblad closing its H system which happened many years after the 680III was being developed.

Hope that clears up the confusion on this thread.

Doug Peterson
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Phase One, Leaf, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
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[nik]

Thanks for the clarification Doug. In addition to the needed wake-up signal,  it was also pointed out that the shutter speed of the 680 camera cannot be relayed to the back unless you use a OneShot device (phase/leaf) or software (Hasselblad/Sinar).

-N

I think there was some confusion on this thread between the Fuji GX680 and Fuji GX645 and their relationship to the H2/H3 and how those bodies do or don't work with Phase One backs.

The Fuji GX645 is the equivalent of the Hasselblad H2 and requires no wakeup cable and was made before Hasselblad closed their system. The H3 is a closed system which includes firmware which does not allow the camera to operate unless a Hasselblad back is mounted and so will not work with a Phase back even with a wakeup cable.

The Fuji GX680 (I, II, III) is a film era semi-large-format system with tilts and swings built in. It was/is a cool system except it has no lenses which are very wide when using a 645 (or smaller) sensor. The reason it requires the one-shot system with the Kodak-chip Phase backs is because it was designed before the digital backs and does not include the proper electronic signals to deliver the wake-up signal for these digital backs.

In other words it has nothing to do with Hasselblad closing its H system which happened many years after the 680III was being developed.

Hope that clears up the confusion on this thread.

Doug Peterson
__________________
Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One, Leaf, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870  |  Cell: 740.707.2183
Newsletter: Read Latest or Sign Up
RSS Feed: Subscribe