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Author Topic: Becoming a great Architectural Photographer!?  (Read 56969 times)

CBarrett

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Becoming a great Architectural Photographer!?
« Reply #120 on: November 10, 2009, 09:43:45 AM »

By the way, Jack.... to get back to the original question...

I've been doing this 18 years and I consider myself a damn good architectural photographer.... I've still got my sights set on "great"!

Ezra Stoller, Ken and Bill Hedrich, Julius Shulman.... great.
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Lust4Life

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Becoming a great Architectural Photographer!?
« Reply #121 on: November 10, 2009, 11:16:36 AM »

Great in my mind is elusive and something to be sought after for all of our lives rather than achieved.
If you think that you have arrived at being "Great", then the journey has ended, and you have failed.

Jack


Quote from: CBarrett
By the way, Jack.... to get back to the original question...

I've been doing this 18 years and I consider myself a damn good architectural photographer.... I've still got my sights set on "great"!

Ezra Stoller, Ken and Bill Hedrich, Julius Shulman.... great.

Carsten W

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Becoming a great Architectural Photographer!?
« Reply #122 on: November 11, 2009, 02:24:08 PM »

I find this discussion fascinating, and although I am not looking to break into professional architectural photography, I would still love to increase my knowledge of it, and skills.

I think the primary thing for me is not the gear side, I am pretty confident that I will be able to figure out what gear to get and how to get it to work for me.

The more interesting question IMO is how to "understand" the space, the light, and the shadows, as well as the use and flow of people through it. I don't really know where to start here, except possibly to seek out some basic architectural textbooks. Does anyone have any recommendations in this direction?
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Carsten W

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Becoming a great Architectural Photographer!?
« Reply #123 on: November 11, 2009, 03:37:13 PM »

Quote from: GBPhoto
Here's a good primer:
Ching: Architecture: Form Space and Order
This will pull up a bunch of related selections as well.

On the photography side, there are millions of architectural monographs & journals, some were listed earlier in this thread.  
Also have a look at books on perspective drawing.

Note that design for function is not always the same as design for photographs...

I underwent a basic education in engineering before switching to Math/Computer Science, so I think I am okay for perspective drawing. I'll look into the Ching book though, thanks for the tip.
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Pedro Kok

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Becoming a great Architectural Photographer!?
« Reply #124 on: November 14, 2009, 03:32:02 PM »

If it is of any interest, I heartily recommend Building With Light: An International History of Architectural Photography. It's one of the few available books on the subject, the others being Architecture Transformed: A History of the Photography of Buildings from 1839 to the Present and maybe The Photography of Architecture: Twelve Views. I've reproduced the first chapter of the latter here (shame on me).

Pedro
« Last Edit: November 14, 2009, 03:33:05 PM by Pedro Kok »
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Carsten W

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« Reply #125 on: November 14, 2009, 04:48:59 PM »

Quote from: Pedro Kok
If it is of any interest, I heartily recommend Building With Light: An International History of Architectural Photography. It's one of the few available books on the subject, the others being Architecture Transformed: A History of the Photography of Buildings from 1839 to the Present and maybe The Photography of Architecture: Twelve Views. I've reproduced the first chapter of the latter here (shame on me).

Pedro

I added those to my wishlist, thanks a lot.
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Lust4Life

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Becoming a great Architectural Photographer!?
« Reply #126 on: November 18, 2009, 04:54:14 PM »

Are most folks delivering strictly digital files to your clients, or do they demand printed media as well?

Any Canon shooters out there that are moving to the new Nikon D3x?
If so, your reasons?

Jack

CBarrett

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Becoming a great Architectural Photographer!?
« Reply #127 on: November 18, 2009, 05:13:35 PM »

Quote from: Lust4Life
Are most folks delivering strictly digital files to your clients, or do they demand printed media as well?

Any Canon shooters out there that are moving to the new Nikon D3x?
If so, your reasons?

Jack


I deliver file prints with all my images, sort of a "this is what your monitor is SUPPOSED to look like."  No one asks for them and I never get print orders.

On the DSLR front, I'll buy a D4x when they come out, but for now the D3 serves my dslr needs... and I'm assuming a forthcoming 17mm PCe... you hear me Nikkor?!!!!

Maybe I'll ditch my 645 kit and put together a full Nikon kit to carry as backup, like the rest of yous guys.
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rethmeier

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« Reply #128 on: November 18, 2009, 05:52:01 PM »

That would be great! A 17 PC-e lens from Nikon.
However,it's something I can't see happening for a while.
The D3x is excellent , no complaints there.
Best,
Willem.
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Willem Rethmeier
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adammork

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« Reply #129 on: November 18, 2009, 06:05:38 PM »

Quote from: rethmeier
That would be great! A 17 PC-e lens from Nikon.
However,it's something I can't see happening for a while.
The D3x is excellent , no complaints there.
Best,
Willem.

I have been told by the local Nikon agent that a 17 pc is not going to happen in the near future, if at all... and yes the D3x is excellent in many ways, but it could be sweet if i was possible to mount the new canon's on it.

/adam
« Last Edit: November 18, 2009, 06:06:08 PM by adammork »
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JeffKohn

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Becoming a great Architectural Photographer!?
« Reply #130 on: November 18, 2009, 06:13:14 PM »

I'd rather have another PC-E in the 30-35mm range than a 17mm PC-E, personally.

rethmeier

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« Reply #131 on: November 18, 2009, 06:25:35 PM »

I'm trying the 24PC-e with the TC-14A 1.4x shortly.
Rainer did try the Canon  TSE's with a 1.4x converter and it works o.k.

Cheers,
Willem.
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Lust4Life

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« Reply #132 on: November 18, 2009, 08:47:29 PM »

What I'd like to see, to allow all of us to reach our own conclusion, is a file from a D3x/24PC-E and an image shot with the Canon 1DsMKIII and the 24 TC-E II.

I've always felt Nikon glass was better than Canon, but it's been a couple of years since I've shot either.

An FTP to pull the actual full res TIFF or even RAW digital files off of would be the ideal.

Any ideas?

Jack
« Last Edit: November 18, 2009, 08:48:34 PM by Lust4Life »
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aaronleitz

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Becoming a great Architectural Photographer!?
« Reply #133 on: November 18, 2009, 09:52:47 PM »

Quote from: Lust4Life
What I'd like to see, to allow all of us to reach our own conclusion, is a file from a D3x/24PC-E and an image shot with the Canon 1DsMKIII and the 24 TC-E II.

I've always felt Nikon glass was better than Canon, but it's been a couple of years since I've shot either.

An FTP to pull the actual full res TIFF or even RAW digital files off of would be the ideal.

Any ideas?

Jack

Somewhat related: Lloyd Chambers has an excellent write up on pushing the shadows with the D3x vs. the 5DII:
http://diglloyd.com/diglloyd/free/PushingT...acks/index.html

I hope this thread doesn't turn in to a pixelpeeing/gear chat-fest though. This stuff certainly has little to do with becoming a great architectural photographer.

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dergiman

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Becoming a great Architectural Photographer!?
« Reply #134 on: November 19, 2009, 01:22:56 AM »

Quote from: rethmeier
I'm trying the 24PC-e with the TC-14A 1.4x shortly.
Rainer did try the Canon  TSE's with a 1.4x converter and it works o.k.

Cheers,
Willem.

i tested my 24TSEmk2 with the old 1.4x teleconverter against the olympus 35mm shift on my canon 5D and the olympus was one class better, especially in the corners and regarding distortion. might have to try the 1.4TCmk2 in the future.

philipp
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Lust4Life

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« Reply #135 on: November 19, 2009, 05:56:06 AM »

Quote from: aaronleitz
I hope this thread doesn't turn in to a pixelpeeing/gear chat-fest though. This stuff certainly has little to do with becoming a great architectural photographer.

I agree, but I'm now at the point of defining whether to go Nikon/Canon.  As we have no rental gear in Naples, that option is out unless I want to drive to Miami, which I'd prefer to skip.

Please note that I'm asking for IMAGES shot with T/S lenses to form my OWN opinion, or links to where this has already been discussed with examples, rather than others personal opinions/bias about gear.  In a RAW file is where the decision will be made by ME. (Note: I found the article link you provided to be quite interesting and on target with what I'm seeking - thanks.)

I know that the image I'll get from an SLR will not rival the image from a 39MP MFDB (back when I had hair on my head, many moons ago, I worked with Nikon and Hasselblad in developing/testing their very first digital cameras).   But a DSLR is the most cost effective way to pursue the AP market for me in this economy with T/S lenses at a fraction of the cost of a MFDB prime lens.  

It's a given that I'll have to re-program my eye and standards - in short, I've got to "fall out of Love" with my Hasselblad!    

This is one of the best threads and has gone exactly in the direction I had hoped when I started it.  I expect for quite some time folks thinking of going into the AP market will find the data presented in these two threads very valuable, I sure have!

Jack
« Last Edit: November 19, 2009, 06:08:55 AM by Lust4Life »
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rainer_v

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« Reply #136 on: November 19, 2009, 06:27:31 AM »

Quote from: Lust4Life
I agree, but I'm now at the point of defining whether to go Nikon/Canon.  As we have no rental gear in Naples, that option is out unless I want to drive to Miami, which I'd prefer to skip.

Please note that I'm asking for IMAGES shot with T/S lenses to form my OWN opinion, or links to where this has already been discussed with examples, rather than others personal opinions/bias about gear.  In a RAW file is where the decision will be made by ME. (Note: I found the article link you provided to be quite interesting and on target with what I'm seeking - thanks.)

I know that the image I'll get from an SLR will not rival the image from a 39MP MFDB (back when I had hair on my head, many moons ago, I worked with Nikon and Hasselblad in developing/testing their very first digital cameras).   But a DSLR is the most cost effective way to pursue the AP market for me in this economy with T/S lenses at a fraction of the cost of a MFDB prime lens.  

It's a given that I'll have to re-program my eye and standards - in short, I've got to "fall out of Love" with my Hasselblad!    

This is one of the best threads and has gone exactly in the direction I had hoped when I started it.  I expect for quite some time folks thinking of going into the AP market will find the data presented in these two threads very valuable, I sure have!

Jack

whats for me always  an essential question is the workflow. i leaned myself far out the window to create such workflow in mf  and finally it saved me a ton of time, i think i wouldnt have started ( or went on )  in 2005 with sinar, if stefan would not have helped writing the programs for a convenient batch workflow. and sinar was not the only one! leaf was 100% unacceptable with its centerfold ( sinar too, but here stefan saved the game once more again ... ), the kodak chips havent looked to me on par with dalsa and the C1 workflow to correct color casts was completely inconvenient at that time. hasselblad still said that there is no colorcast so nothing to correct, i did not agree seeing green- magenta casted files as soon a lens was shifted. it was stone-age for digital on location shooting ....
my camera was custom made from gottschalk, cause same situation here than with the backs. for me it was ( and still is ) a 100% no option to work either with view finders,
or with a removable ground glass/ sensor and/ or with a bellow based system to focus. i  shoot mostly untethered and often on cranes, no need to make this more complicate as it already is.

so if the canon works or not will depend a lot how comfortable i can compose and work with it, including here the postpro. optically it seems to be over the top now, and resolution/sensor wise too, but i need more experience here in practical work.
i just visited an exhibition in Munich of my bangkok photographer friend Ralf Tooten: Bangkok Noir .
oh man. so nice photography, so atmosphaeric. and not any miss for my taste for detail even at 5" wide prints.
beautyfull grain ( digital ), great colors. all done with a kodak slr and a nikon 3d with 12mp but with a great eye .....

my direction clearly goes another way than to raise up detail sharpness. and DR depends very much on how you shoot and how you post.
i do many if not most of my mf shots stacking exposures too, so no real problem to spread that 1/2 step further or even 1stop working with 35mm.
i will start to use the canon right now in smaller and also personal projects, i have a very small shoot on sunday but also i have to go to south africa in february
for a larger project, for both i will shoot with the canon system only.
i will report.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2009, 07:42:54 AM by rainer_v »
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CBarrett

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Becoming a great Architectural Photographer!?
« Reply #137 on: November 19, 2009, 09:10:31 AM »

Rainer's comments show exactly why this debate is so pointless.  I mean we all work in different ways and we have to judge for ourselves what tools are most compatible with our workflow.  I spend the bulk of my time indoors where the camera stays put for an hour or two (or three).  I find that working on a view camera tethered to a laptop gives me the highest quality I can achieve and in the scheme of producing the shots it doesn't slow me down at all.

I have also shot tethered to the computer from a crane and let me tell you, the whole time I was up there I was wishing I had a dslr, so I know firsthand where Rainer is coming from.  The process that I typically prefer would be totally incompatible with his daily workflow.

In the end, it's just a matter of knowing your tools and using the one that will get you the best shot in that situation.

I'm done talking about formats now.

Crop: I recently worked for a new client who asked that I shoot everything to 4x5 proportion.  I think it's largely due to the fact that he's always seen his work on 4x5 chrome.  When I shot film I always composed for the full frame.  Now that the P65+ gives me so many pixels, I find myself cropping all over the place with little regard to proportion, just going with what feels right.

Do you guys try to constrain yourselves at all for consistency?

-C

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Lust4Life

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« Reply #138 on: November 19, 2009, 11:19:05 AM »

Ashley,

Could you define you for us the process of shooting and processiing on the last image?
Lighting/number of exposures/layers/etc.
 - looks like that one was quite challenging to my eye, yet the results I find striking!

And yes, the square image!  I've loved it's look ever since my 500cm and 503cw days!

Thanks,
Jack

Kirk Gittings

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« Reply #139 on: November 19, 2009, 11:41:22 AM »

Quote
Do you guys try to constrain yourselves at all for consistency?

Like you, when I shot 4x5, I always composed to the 4x5 format, always tying to create a chrome that required no cropping. Part of that was shear professional pride, wanting to deliver perfect chromes. Over the years more than a few magazine art directors and other clients commented on that so I guess it paid off. In one case it led to years of assignments from a national magazine. After seeing a stock submital, they called me commenting on the perfect full frame compositions and asked if I was willing to travel. This was early in my career and was a big boost to my career.

Now as I mainly shoot DSLR, YES. To get a decent file from a 21MP camera one must work at using the whole file and minimizing any interpolation etc. So yes, I carefully compose to the format, carefully align etc. so as much of the original file remains intact. Having said that I don't hesitate to stitch (which builds file size and averts the previous issues mentioned) to a variety of final, even random, formats (whatever fits the space). I also do some HDR and a fair amount of focus stacking (a huge boon to shooting architectural models where we could never get enough depth of field before). So it is a bit of both worlds.

As per the format of the final image, since most images are used by architects for electronic competition submissions (DVD slide show), magazine submissions, and websites the format shape is allot more flexible than it was when the 8x10 print or 4x5 chrome was the norm. For the electronic submissions the format is irrelevant and I find magazines appreciate the variety. So I deliver a big mix, primarily FF DSLR format but always a few panoramas etc.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2009, 11:42:52 AM by Kirk Gittings »
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Kirk

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