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Author Topic: Serious study of pre-owned >44" machines  (Read 5041 times)

Rocco Penny

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Serious study of pre-owned >44" machines
« on: October 13, 2009, 10:35:22 am »

I've got a print that deserves epic sizing.
I am able to somewhat use my 24"z3100 base model w/pcl3
I am thinking the 44"z3100 won't be very different, so there's that.
But is it really so far a reach to pick up a used epson?
I wonder just how bad the clogs are on a 9800.  Will it give me nothing but grief?
I'd wait for a 9900 to come down to being a good deal, but I just don't see that happening for a year or two.
So I think I'm left with two choices really
the 9800 or the z3100 44"
I'm leaning toward the 3100 because of clogging on the epson.
Is this valid reasoning?
Thank you for any thoughts.
Rocco
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Ryan Grayley

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Serious study of pre-owned >44" machines
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2009, 10:59:03 am »

Quote from: Rocco Penny
I've got a print that deserves epic sizing.
I am able to somewhat use my 24"z3100 base model w/pcl3
I am thinking the 44"z3100 won't be very different, so there's that.
But is it really so far a reach to pick up a used epson?
I wonder just how bad the clogs are on a 9800.  Will it give me nothing but grief?
I'd wait for a 9900 to come down to being a good deal, but I just don't see that happening for a year or two.
So I think I'm left with two choices really
the 9800 or the z3100 44"
I'm leaning toward the 3100 because of clogging on the epson.

I have a 44" Epson 9600 for sale which hardly ever clogged.
However the printer is in the UK and I guess you are somewhere else.
:-(
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felix5616

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Serious study of pre-owned >44" machines
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2009, 11:28:39 am »

Quote from: Rocco Penny
I've got a print that deserves epic sizing.
I am able to somewhat use my 24"z3100 base model w/pcl3
I am thinking the 44"z3100 won't be very different, so there's that.
But is it really so far a reach to pick up a used epson?
I wonder just how bad the clogs are on a 9800.  Will it give me nothing but grief?
I'd wait for a 9900 to come down to being a good deal, but I just don't see that happening for a year or two.
So I think I'm left with two choices really
the 9800 or the z3100 44"
I'm leaning toward the 3100 because of clogging on the epson.
Is this valid reasoning?
Thank you for any thoughts.
Rocco
I had a Z3100 that would sit for 2 to 3 months without use and it never clogged. I have a 44" Z3200, same story, it never clogs. the software is a little buggy but once worked out it just works. The HP z printers sip ink in comparison to the epson printers i've had(3800, 4800 and 7800)
i would not go back to epsons unless i need their 60" printer(11880)
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bill t.

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Serious study of pre-owned >44" machines
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2009, 03:54:28 pm »

Have owned both a 7800 and my current 9880.  Very minimal clogging issues with the 7800, probably because I was printing almost exclusively RC paper.  Initially had some clogging trouble  with the 9880 printing mostly canvas and (dusty) fine art papers, but since I finally realized the head clearance was set too low have had very few clogs and those were easily fixed .  Both are true workhorse machines that never had any down time whatsoever.

Have had both do just fine after weeks on non-use.  When there's going to a little time between uses I put a plastic tray with a wet sponge in it near the heads, seems to be all that's needed to prevent drying clogs, also it is apparently important to store the machine with the pressure lever engaged.

A friend bought a used 9800 from a lab about a year ago, put about a bazillion miles on it, still going strong.  Got the 9880 new for under $3k when the 9900's came out, glad I acted then.

Bottom line for me is I wouldn't hesitate to pick up another one.  But to be honest that's partly a matter of picking a devil I know versus one I don't.  I've come to terms with the clog issues (which are mostly overstated on forums, IMHO) and am willing to put with them because everything else works so great.  Should also be mentioned that in a lot of printing have never had a ruined print from a clog during printing, or for any issue having to do with the printer, and that includes quite a few 44 x 120 prints.
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framah

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Serious study of pre-owned >44" machines
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2009, 04:51:47 pm »

Just sold a 9600 that never gave me a bit of trouble with clogs. It took a while to sell it cause up here in Maine there weren't many people needing one. I ended up selling it for $900.

They are out there but you really are better off getting a new one if possible.
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DanielStone

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Serious study of pre-owned >44" machines
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2009, 06:37:45 pm »

given any thought to the Canon line-up of printers? I have an ipf5100 and its a dream. Albeit, smaller cartridges (130ml, no 220 like the epson). But it prints damn fine on any substrate, from clear acetate for enlarged negatives to the thickest Hahnemuhle paper that I can throw at it.

This is a 17" machine, but they have a 44" one that is a great performer from what I've heard, and I think that there are 700ml cartridges or something obscene like that available for them if you like to print a lot.

also, do you print this size often? I'm assuming a 40"x50" print in this case, but have you given any thought to getting a lightjet print done? There are labs out there that can print on metallic if that's to your liking, and some of those RA-4 machines can take BIG paper, like 72" wide IIRC.

-Dan

Ohh..... and on another note on my Canon. I haven't run it in the last 6 months(yes, 6 months), because of being back at school for the summer, but I only had to run a head-alignment on it. My friend who has a 7880 has to run a head cleaning every couple of days. And he runs it everday(he prints for his business, portraits).
« Last Edit: October 13, 2009, 06:40:37 pm by DanielStone »
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Rocco Penny

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Serious study of pre-owned >44" machines
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2009, 09:44:12 am »

So, looking at my prints I'm more and more inclined to go with the z3100.
I can use it.
I'm afraid of the learning curve on the epson and notice the HP is invariably less expensive used.
MANY of the HP's are home units that never got used.
Some still have starter carts in them.
I'm not saying they all don't need the tlc a devoted owner would give them, but I'm more inclined to go with a hardly used machine.
Most are going for a song on the reports of poor firmware/software/hardware/saturated reds/etc.
I've been messing with this 24" and am only getting better and better prints.\I think I can use the 44"
« Last Edit: October 15, 2009, 09:45:12 am by Rocco Penny »
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ssgphoto

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Serious study of pre-owned >44" machines
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2009, 11:01:13 am »

I have had both an epson 9600 for 3 years and now a 9800 for three years with no major clogging problems. I work the heck out of these machines. Sure I run a nozzle check, and if I haven't printed in a while it may clog, but a quick head cleaning gets it done and I'm on my way. Considering I print a ton on hahnemuhle photorag and use the onboard cutter ( not recommended for dust reasons) the printers are beyond reliable workhorses. I really don't think there is much learning curve. I have had probably 8 or 9 friends and clients buy similar Epsons, and everyone has been up and running the same day no drama. The used 9800's are damn cheap too, 2000$ gets you a printer in very good condition, and I have seen them sell for much less. If you find a machine,  print a status report that gives you the remaining "life" of the major components on a 1 to 5 star scale, so you should be able to have decent peace of mind.


I also have had a pretty good experience with my canon ipf 9000, although I had to replace the printheads, about a year into ownership, luckily under warranty. No such issue with my 9800. But the onboard gloss and matte black is a plus.


hope that helps
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Dan Wells

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Serious study of pre-owned >44" machines
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2009, 03:01:43 pm »

Quote from: ssgphoto
I have had both an epson 9600 for 3 years and now a 9800 for three years with no major clogging problems. I work the heck out of these machines. Sure I run a nozzle check, and if I haven't printed in a while it may clog, but a quick head cleaning gets it done and I'm on my way. Considering I print a ton on hahnemuhle photorag and use the onboard cutter ( not recommended for dust reasons) the printers are beyond reliable workhorses. I really don't think there is much learning curve. I have had probably 8 or 9 friends and clients buy similar Epsons, and everyone has been up and running the same day no drama. The used 9800's are damn cheap too, 2000$ gets you a printer in very good condition, and I have seen them sell for much less. If you find a machine,  print a status report that gives you the remaining "life" of the major components on a 1 to 5 star scale, so you should be able to have decent peace of mind.


I also have had a pretty good experience with my canon ipf 9000, although I had to replace the printheads, about a year into ownership, luckily under warranty. No such issue with my 9800. But the onboard gloss and matte black is a plus.


hope that helps

I second the Canon recommendations - my iPF6100 is great, and the 5000 I had before it was also a very nice machine - never a clog out of either one. The 6100 goes for under $2500, and Canon was selling the 44 inch 8100 for about $3000 at one point (although I don't see that price now). The iPFs are generally a little cheaper than their direct competitors, and I don't think they give up any image quality.

                               -Dan
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bellimages

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Serious study of pre-owned >44" machines
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2009, 03:24:40 pm »

Quote from: framah
Just sold a 9600 that never gave me a bit of trouble with clogs. It took a while to sell it cause up here in Maine there weren't many people needing one. I ended up selling it for $900.

They are out there but you really are better off getting a new one if possible.


Why would a used Epson 9600 only be worth $900? Seems way too cheap to me. Is that the going price for a used one? I have always bought new, but if used machines are so cheap, maybe I should keep my eyes peeled .... once I'm ready to buy a printer. Thoughts?
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langier

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Serious study of pre-owned >44" machines
« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2009, 08:43:03 pm »

I'm using a 4000 that has sat for the last two plus months and after a few cleaning cycles, it's printing like a champ. My 9800 sat a bit less and it's also fine. I haven't tried the 7600 in a few months but I'll bet after a few cleaning cycles, it will, too.

I'm in California and where there is low humidity and haven't had a major issue with clogging. Same for the old 2200 (maybe 10 years old) that sits down the counter and still produces lots of smaller prints.

Though some have had problems with clogging, not so with me!

Of the four Epson printer I have (only the 2200 and the 4000 were new), clogging and most other issues have been minor. The 2200 was rebuilt a few years ago when the chip hit 6000 prints and became a brick. It needed new waste pads and a chip reset. This year it needed the rollers worked on and cleaned and it's ready for a few more years.

My 7600 was second hand and  the carts interchange with the 4000. I bought it to do larger prints and as a bonus, the ink carts interchange. My 9800 was used commercially before I bought it and was serviced by Epson before I picked it up. It has worked flawlessly in the two years I've had it.

Of the four printers, the best and richest prints, including b&w, come from the 9800. I use the Bill Atkinson profiles and the prints nearly match my monitor. I seldom have to reprint because of monitor-printer differences.

Once your matt and frame the prints, you'll see very little difference between the output of most printers, though with the new inks and winder gamuts, you'd probably see some differences between them if you put them all up side-by-side. Each printer/ink/paper renders slightly different.

With most of the pro printers of the past few years, the quality is simply stunning, IMO.

Between my 7600 (9600) and the 9800, though, the prints are much richer and the b&w better with the 9800. Even at under $1000 for a used 9600, I would probably track down the 9800 (or even a 9880 with Vivid Magenta) and pay a bit more for newer technology and the K3 inks. Parts and inks are going to be around longer for the x800 and x8800 printers than for the 4000/7600/9600 printers, though I know a few photographers still using the now ancient 7000/9000 series printers and print nice work.

If you are going to spring for an Epson, look for a 9800 or newer. Less chance for clogged nozzles and better, denser inks thus richer prints. Though the x600 produces very nice prints, you will be happier with the print quality of the x800 series since it is nearer that of the HP 3100 series as far as gamut and d-max.

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jpgentry

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Serious study of pre-owned >44" machines
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2009, 02:06:17 pm »

I third the Canon ipf recommendation.  I've had Epsons and HP's in the past and the Canon is the least muss and fuss and produces equally great images.  I use the ipf5100 17" and the ipf9100 60".  The support blows HP and Epson out of the water - TRUST ME.

-Jonathan
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Rocco Penny

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Serious study of pre-owned >44" machines
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2009, 07:51:40 pm »

I'll get an Epson.
I'm going to get a machine and let the ink use, learning curve, clogs, and similar challenges be darned.
I want to be capable of first rate work.
I'll continue learning and just work to be the best I can using MY machines regardless of which one.
I thank you all for the input,
I'm a 1rst year man and am reeling with all the important information I need to succeed.
Thank you,
Rocco
« Last Edit: October 22, 2009, 07:53:00 pm by Rocco Penny »
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Shutterbug2006

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Serious study of pre-owned >44" machines
« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2009, 11:28:39 am »

I bought a Z3100 18 months ago - replaced my first light gray and first gloss enhancer recently. I've never had an ink clog. It wakes up faithfully every day for a moment to keep the heads clear. I obviously don't print often on it, but when I do, WOW - I love the prints made.

It cost a lot to have sitting around collecting dust - but I like being able to make my own prints when *I* want.

For the little use it gets, had it been a Canon or Epson, I'm quite certain I'd be fighting with clog issues - and I've been down that road with both Epson and Canon consumer ink-jets and don't want the hassles.

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