Leaf Aptus 5 coming

[gwhitf]

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[gwhitf]

If you want this mysterious and hard to nail down 'look' i think your looking in the wrong place with these puny mfd sensors, medium format use to be 6x7 or 6x8, possibly 6x6 if you were on a budget, but 'back in the day' if you mentioned 6 x 4.5 you would hear the sniggers from the back of the room. If you want the 'look' then you better get a large format, preferably a 10-8 and a few sheets of film.
I could be wrong, but if you can actually show me the difference in the 'look' between these mfd's and a 35mm digital with an example, then i will eat my screen!

I completely agree. I agree about the sniggers too.

Are there other brands of backs that have the large sensor, similar to the P65+? Agreed, when dealing with tiny differences between Canon sensor size and some of the MF sizes, the importance is to get the largest sensor possible. (Unless that sensor is 45 grand).

I think when people talk about this mysterious difference between 35 and MF, they are seeing two distinct differences:

* CCD with no anti-alias, versus CMOS.
* Difference in optics, and the way that optics render focus with larger formats.

[TMARK]

I think when people talk about this mysterious difference between 35 and MF, they are seeing two distinct differences:

* CCD with no anti-alias, versus CMOS.
* Difference in optics, and the way that optics render focus with larger formats.

Yes.  The backs can look different.  It was worth it to me to buy an Aptus 54s, for when I want the look.  It was cheap-, used, from a friend going out of business.  You can get really, really close with fast lenses on 35mm.  I love the Canon 85L and 135L.  Easier than lugging around the old RZ, as well.

[Cfranson]

Hmmm... I was first told by the local dealer here that Aptus II 5 back only would be US$8K, and back plus PhaseOne 645 camera body and lens would be US$10K. Then the next day, she sent a correction saying that it would be US$10K for back only.  I guess we'll wait till the dust settles.

The Aptus II 5 is $7995 for the back only. The promotion for the 645 body with an 80mm lens is an additional $2000. $9995 total.

[GiorgioNiro]

The Aptus II 5 is $7995 for the back only. The promotion for the 645 body with an 80mm lens is an additional $2000. $9995 total.

Hi Chris,

Does the promotion include the option of the new 645DF Body and Aptus II 5 ?

[BJL]

... medium format use to be 6x7 or 6x8, possibly 6x6 if you were on a budget ...

Really? I thought that "back in the day", the MF systems of greatest prestige and widest professional usage were from Hasselblad and Rollei, in 6x6 and not commonly considered as low budget options.

[pschefz]

i don't get why leaf/phase does not bring this into d3x territory....because, really, the d3x is too expensive....do the back with the DF body for 8000$.....so anyone who shoots studio, does not need the high iso and the faster AF really has a choice...with this price you can still get a d3x with 2 or 3 nice lenses for the same price and get the same quality up to 11x14 or all commercial applications.....for someone looking for the tool to shoot ANY job, they will still get the 5dII for 25% and pay for a killer mailer....

the only real reason to go with this back is the DF camera and the schneider lenses....and if that package is 11000 or 12000 it is just too much again....

anyone who has ever shot with DMF knows that you don't get a real MF look with any back...the look comes form the larger capture size and 36x48 is still smaller then 645 which even in film days was considered more like 35mm then MF which starts at 6x6 or 6x7....the fujis with 6x8 and 6x9 (and 6x17!) were a true step up from 35 (and from 645)......

also: there is nothing worse then the castrated viewfinders...i honest to god do not understand what is so difficult of expensive about just magnifying the viewfinder image a tad? at least to bring it up to the "full" 645 (which is laughable for MF standards....)...has anyone actually ever taken the Dback off and shot a couple of rolls?

i have always liked the mamiya 645 system, great ergonomics, good price, great lenses (ok, some dogs as well...) but a great system which has never failed me (which is more then i can say about all the others...) and the DF with the schneider leaf lenses makes is really the system to beat....but the real competition is canon and nikon....amateurs and semi pros will go for the name and recommendation of the salesperson which will probably be hasselblad....regardless of what mamiya/phase/leaf do.....mamiya=plastic....hasselblad=quality....that is engrained somewhere....that schneider optics blow everything out of the water not only with raw performance but also with beautiful rendering does not register with people who read lens performance tests at bedtime...

aptus 5 with the DF and a schneider 80 for 9000....i still would not buy it but for someone who thinks they need it and that it will take their photography to the next level it is hard to turn down....

the whole MF market can be summed up with the old but more true then ever ansel adams: nothing worse then a sharp (edit: and super detailed) image of a fuzzy concept.....amazing how many large, terribly boring and incredibly sharp images come out of DMF.....that and HDR....  

[mcfoto]

We have more information and prices on our website:

Leaf Aptus II 5

The back is going to be supplied with both Leaf Capture and Capture One DB plus please bear in mind that the Aptus is an open platform and can be attached to an extensive range of View Cameras.

Hi If they follow the Euro pricing for the DF body & LS lens of 3000.00 USD that would be a good deal.
Denis

[aaron]

Really? I thought that "back in the day", the MF systems of greatest prestige and widest professional usage were from Hasselblad and Rollei, in 6x6 and not commonly considered as low budget options.

Well the 6x6 reference was 'tongue in cheek', really inferring that medium format didnt start and end with 6x4.5, but the budget comment was in reference to the film usage, the main reason for shooting 6x4.5 was that you got a few extra frames on a roll of 120/220. A 6x8 was almost twice as expensive to run as a 6x4.5.

Having said that, Rollei's were considered prestige as you had to have a bag full of them as one body rarely made through a roll before it broke down.

You could get by with one Hassy body, they actually use to be reliable.

[klane]

Nice images John!  Really like your style.

[BJL]

Hi Chris,

Does the promotion include the option of the new 645DF Body and Aptus II 5 ?

Not from what I see, which is a special price on the recently superseded Phase One 645 AF body with Aptus-II 5 back.

The whole deal looks like deals for the price sensitive on older generation stuff ... which is fine, since it seems that a lot of MF users are wanting to step out of the expensive upgrade rat race, get a decent if not cutting edge kit at a manageable price, and stick with it for a while. (But can this kit use the new LS lenses?)

[TMARK]

Really? I thought that "back in the day", the MF systems of greatest prestige and widest professional usage were from Hasselblad and Rollei, in 6x6 and not commonly considered as low budget options.

After the Rolleicord, very few people in the US used Rollei.  Most common MF in a studio was an RZ.

[Graham Mitchell]

Having said that, Rollei's were considered prestige as you had to have a bag full of them as one body rarely made through a roll before it broke down.

Slight exageration perhaps? My used 6008 has been put through 50,000 shots easily without a hiccup.

[RobertJ]

Yair, do you have any info on whether those Mamiya DL28 and DL33 packages will eventually come with a DF body instead of an AFDIII body (like they do now)?  And also, any word on a Mamiya DL22 package that would include a DF body and this new Aptus-II 5 back?

[gwhitf]

The thing that's been sticking in the back of my mind, for the past few days, was one simple line written by James Russell, in one of these threads, it was something like "Give me something truly revolutionary, so my clients say That's amazing".

I have been thinking what that would look like. At this point in this digital evolution, it seems like we're ready again for something truly revolutionary, kinda like the Canon 1D was, or that D30, years ago.

What would that look like in MF? I simply want a camera that fits well in my hand, that shoots about 22MP, at about two frames a second, that's FULL FRAME no bullshit 645 sensor. And the kicker, it can't cost any more than about fifteen grand for the body and back together. That, to me, is the ONLY thing that is going to hold off the tidal wave of the next Canon/Nikon release. I read on canonrumors.com, that the next 1ds4 is predicted to be 32 megapixels -- if that is so, that's gonna steal a lot of thunder from anything that's overpriced in MF. That 32MP will sell for seven or eight k in USdollars, for what is, in a sense, a body and back together. So there is the bar -- can anything in MF come even remotely close to matching that. And let's not talk about that the next ASA in 35 will be 102,000. And no, that's not a typo. Can CCD compete with that?

http://www.canonrumors.com/2009/10/announc...er-20-2009-cr3/

I should say, I am rooting for MF to pull their head out of the sand and see what's about to come at them, head on, down the tracks.

[GiorgioNiro]

The thing that's been sticking in the back of my mind, for the past few days, was one simple line written by James Russell, in one of these threads, it was something like "Give me something truly revolutionary, so my clients say That's amazing".

I have been thinking what that would look like. At this point in this digital evolution, it seems like we're ready again for something truly revolutionary, kinda like the Canon 1D was, or that D30, years ago.

What would that look like in MF? I simply want a camera that fits well in my hand, that shoots about 22MP, at about two frames a second, that's FULL FRAME no bullshit 645 sensor. And the kicker, it can't cost any more than about fifteen grand for the body and back together. That, to me, is the ONLY thing that is going to hold off the tidal wave of the next Canon/Nikon release. I read on canonrumors.com, that the next 1ds4 is predicted to be 32 megapixels -- if that is so, that's gonna steal a lot of thunder from anything that's overpriced in MF. That 32MP will sell for seven or eight k in USdollars, for what is, in a sense, a body and back together. So there is the bar -- can anything in MF come even remotely close to matching that. And let's not talk about that the next ASA in 35 will be 102,000. And no, that's not a typo. Can CCD compete with that?

I should say, I am rooting for MF to pull their head out of the sand and see what's about to come at them, head on, down the tracks.

Must say I have been watching this MFDB thing for a few years.
If I can not buy something like the 645DF with the Aptus II 5 for under 10K, then I will be watching a bit longer.
At this point, I have learned to be patient.

[EricWHiss]

The thing that's been sticking in the back of my mind, for the past few days, was one simple line written by James Russell, in one of these threads, it was something like "Give me something truly revolutionary, so my clients say That's amazing".

I have been thinking what that would look like. At this point in this digital evolution, it seems like we're ready again for something truly revolutionary, kinda like the Canon 1D was, or that D30, years ago.

What would that look like in MF? I simply want a camera that fits well in my hand, that shoots about 22MP, at about two frames a second, that's FULL FRAME no bullshit 645 sensor. And the kicker, it can't cost any more than about fifteen grand for the body and back together. That, to me, is the ONLY thing that is going to hold off the tidal wave of the next Canon/Nikon release. I read on canonrumors.com, that the next 1ds4 is predicted to be 32 megapixels -- if that is so, that's gonna steal a lot of thunder from anything that's overpriced in MF. That 32MP will sell for seven or eight k in USdollars, for what is, in a sense, a body and back together. So there is the bar -- can anything in MF come even remotely close to matching that. And let's not talk about that the next ASA in 35 will be 102,000. And no, that's not a typo. Can CCD compete with that?

I should say, I am rooting for MF to pull their head out of the sand and see what's about to come at them, head on, down the tracks.

And the 1Ds4 will probably do video....and clean ISO 6400.    However won't it be diffraction limited to f/8 or larger?  Also I'm betting that it will actually have even less dynamic range than its predecessor.   That's just what the pixel peeps, panogeeks and stitcher freaks want - they can shoot multiple frames and focus stack, stitch and HDR blend until their hearts content or maybe they'll just talk about it?     (note: you know who you are - please control yourselves this is not an invitation to ruin another thread)   Problem also is its a lot harder to get glass to match 32mpix in 24x36mm format - much easier when you have 36x48 or larger.   Glad to see phase/leaf taking the glass seriously as its going to be ever more important.  

This  Aptus 5 might be great with the schneider glass.

[shelby_lewis]

At this point in this digital evolution, it seems like we're ready again for something truly revolutionary, kinda like the Canon 1D was, or that D30, years ago.

My thoughts exactly... I've continuously struggled with the decision to get into MF. At first from a budget standpoint... now that I can afford it, I'm not sure I want to drop the money with the canikon onslaught on the move. I clearly see the difference in the files that comes from the big sensor/different glass... and I'm not sure I'd need more than 22mp.

... but I'm just so tired of the cameras being a compromise of sorts. I've tested a few bodies and did enjoy the more deliberate process. LOVED the files.

But still... I'm ready for some revolution. 22mp & 2fps sounds perfect if you ask me. Get the back, body, and an 80 as a package @ $8k and I think you're almost there. I love the idea of taking canikon on at it's own price point, especially given the less than crystalline IQ from the d3x and the lack of zing in the 1dsIII files.

Ah, but the 5dmkII... As much as I don't really care for mine, the value proposition is too damned hard to beat (like the a900).

Well, we're headed in the right direction at least.

[shelby_lewis]

Oh... and why doesn't anyone other than sinar make rollei-fit backs? Everyone's creaming about the schneider glass now that Phamiya has partnered up, but when I was first investigating MF several years back I REALLY found the look of the 6008 series glass from schneider to be fantastic, and that system gets almost no cred.

Everyone says "it's all about the glass", but no one walks that walk, lol... ok the S2 is gonna walk that walk, but that thread is in polar opposite from the aptusII-5 thread on basis of price alone.

I still find myself looking into a 6008af system just for the glass and sync speed, but then the reality of how little the mf back makers support the rollei system smacks me in the face. I still check ebay prices on the 6008 equipment. I'm not saying (for one second) the market needs to got the way of Rollei, but those cameras were/are indeed different. The aptusII-5 is semi-revolutionary on one front only... price.

Maybe the pentax will be "different" (if it every makes it out of development)  

One last thought... I'd LOVE to see a very simple, stupidly rigid mf-digital view camera NOT made by a company who thinks their cameras are made of diamonds (and priced accordingly). The engineering traditions still left over from Britain in both India and China could make this very possible. We're talking simple stuff (in concept)... beefy gear-driven standards with accurate detents, built on the scale of a 6x9 camera for use with a DB. Photoclam's version of the arca cube is one example of such a product. Not cheap... but not priced like fine jewelry. Maybe like a chamonix version of the m-line2, but an actually different design that is simplified and paired down while offering precision and rigidity.

An aptusII-5 on a small metal/carbon-fiber view camera would be killer for art portraiture and architectural/product work.

Maybe the cheaper back frees up the capital to be spent on a nicer camera system.... is that the revolution we're all looking for? Wish I knew.

[EricWHiss]

Oh... and why doesn't anyone other than sinar make rollei-fit backs? Everyone's creaming about the schneider glass now that Phamiya has partnered up, but when I was first investigating MF several years back I REALLY found the look of the 6008 series glass from schneider to be fantastic, and that system gets almost no cred.

Everyone says "it's all about the glass", but no one walks that walk, lol....
.
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I'm still shooting the 6008AF  - love it. Love the lenses for this system.   Though everything just keeps working great on my 6008 AF, I would have eventually migrated to the Hy6/AFi and may still if someone picks it back up.

Yair - how come Leaf never made backs for the Rollei 6000 system?