question about rz shutter speeds

[paul_jones]

i know that the RZ lenses are rated at 400th sec max with its leaf shutter originally.
but i have been wondering, after the reading about the p40 having faster sync than the p60-  does the RZ with a digital back have a faster sync? the shutter only has to open for a far smaller area. can any of you techo types out there work this out for me? if the sync is closer to 800 than 400, then the RZ becomes a lot more appealing as a camera body option to me.
 cheers paul

[JeffT]

i know that the RZ lenses are rated at 400th sec max with its leaf shutter originally.
but i have been wondering, after the reading about the p40 having faster sync than the p60-  does the RZ with a digital back have a faster sync? the shutter only has to open for a far smaller area. can any of you techo types out there work this out for me? if the sync is closer to 800 than 400, then the RZ becomes a lot more appealing as a camera body option to me.
 cheers paul

I own and still use a Mamiya RZ67 Pro IID with a digital back (Leaf 75s) and the RZ lenses each have a self-contained leaf shutter. This leaf shutter only has a maximum available speed of 1/400th sec. While these Mamiya RZ leaf shutters will flash sync up to their maximum speed of 1/400th sec., there is no higher speed available to sync with. 1/400th is the top shutter speed and the top sync speed.

Cheers, Jeff

[DanielStone]

well, there's always FLASH sync too.

Yes, the RZ's top shutter sync-speed is 1/400th of a second.

But remember, even at a 400th, your strobe should be firing MUUUUUUUCCCCCCHHHH faster than than, so you can get a nice sharp, crisp image, free of much, if any motion blur.

I believe Bron and Profoto can flash at a minimum duration of some crazy speed of 1/6000th or something crazy like that at low power settings.

-Dan

[paul_jones]

yes, i know that the max marked shutter speed is 400th on the lens. but its not quite as simple as that. the HC lenses have a different shutter speed depending on the size of the aperture. i know the leica s2 was bragging about it being the only lens that does what it claims when it comes to shutter speeds at all apertures.
also,  it takes less time to cover a small area with a shutter than a large area, so that equals a faster shutter speed. the difference maybe negligible, i dont know (thats why i asked).
but i got very interested when the phase leaf lenses claimed 800th sec on the full frame sensor, and a very impressive 1600th of a sec on a small p40 sensor- thats a massive difference. i doubt the phase lenses are sophisticated enough to only open partially to get these speeds (but they might be). phase people, please inform me.

the way i see it, the full frame shutter speed that covers 6x7 cm takes a certain time, but if it only has to cover a very small area of well under 4.5 x 6 cm, then it is faster.

i know this is boring tech thinking, but the difference between 400th of a sec and 800th is massive if you are shooting movement combined with ambient. if this is right, then its important.
the only way of knowing is test it i guess.

paul

[DanielStone]

yes, i know that the max marked shutter speed is 400th on the lens. but its not quite as simple as that. the HC lenses have a different shutter speed depending on the size of the aperture. i know the leica s2 was bragging about it being the only lens that does what it claims when it comes to shutter speeds at all apertures.
also,  it takes less time to cover a small area with a shutter than a large area, so that equals a faster shutter speed. the difference maybe negligible, i dont know (thats why i asked).
but i got very interested when the phase leaf lenses claimed 800th sec on the full frame sensor, and a very impressive 1600th of a sec on a small p40 sensor- thats a massive difference. i doubt the phase lenses are sophisticated enough to only open partially to get these speeds (but they might be). phase people, please inform me.

the way i see it, the full frame shutter speed that covers 6x7 cm takes a certain time, but if it only has to cover a very small area of well under 4.5 x 6 cm, then it is faster.

i know this is boring tech thinking, but the difference between 400th of a sec and 800th is massive if you are shooting movement combined with ambient. if this is right, then its important.
the only way of knowing is test it i guess.

paul

you could always use the mirror-up function with a double cable release. This would allow you the ability to know that you don't have to wait for the mirror to raise before the shutter firing. you'd get faster shots off, and get the shots you want too . fashion a double handle grip system similar to Markus Klinko's(oops, did I just mention his name ?).

I've been working on building one for my rz system. I like to use it on a tripod if I get the chance, but handheld is no problem either, at least for me. And I'm not a small guy.

-Dan

[yaya]

yes, i know that the max marked shutter speed is 400th on the lens. but its not quite as simple as that. the HC lenses have a different shutter speed depending on the size of the aperture. i know the leica s2 was bragging about it being the only lens that does what it claims when it comes to shutter speeds at all apertures.
also,  it takes less time to cover a small area with a shutter than a large area, so that equals a faster shutter speed. the difference maybe negligible, i dont know (thats why i asked).
but i got very interested when the phase leaf lenses claimed 800th sec on the full frame sensor, and a very impressive 1600th of a sec on a small p40 sensor- thats a massive difference. i doubt the phase lenses are sophisticated enough to only open partially to get these speeds (but they might be). phase people, please inform me.

the way i see it, the full frame shutter speed that covers 6x7 cm takes a certain time, but if it only has to cover a very small area of well under 4.5 x 6 cm, then it is faster.

i know this is boring tech thinking, but the difference between 400th of a sec and 800th is massive if you are shooting movement combined with ambient. if this is right, then its important.
the only way of knowing is test it i guess.

paul

Paul the added speed on the new backs (with the DF body) is attributed to the Dalsa architecture and some new Phase One patents, regardless of the size of the sensor.

You make an interesting point as it makes sense that the shutter takes less time to travel across a crop sensor compared to 6X7 frame. I just don't know how the RZ transfers the signal and I suspect that it is "dumb" and just goes On/ Off at the beginning and the end of the shutter's cycle.

[BJNY]

I don't understand what you're saying here. A leaf shutter regardless of it being used for a 645 frame or 8x10 is still just a leaf shutter. There isn't more or less travel. These aren't focal plane shutters here for high sync. A leaf shutter could be used to expose a massive camera obscura or a small 645 frame, no difference.

Umm...exactly, guys.

[paul_jones]

I don't understand what you're saying here. A leaf shutter regardless of it being used for a 645 frame or 8x10 is still just a leaf shutter. There isn't more or less travel. These aren't focal plane shutters here for high sync. A leaf shutter could be used to expose a massive camera obscura or a small 645 frame, no difference. The difference is just the glass, and how much light it lets in.

I assume Phase has figured out some sort of highly precise timing with the back to allow 1/1600 for the newest backs that is not reverse compatible.

And what exactly are you talking about with Hasselblad shutter speed and aperture. Never heard such a thing before.

yeah, of cause, what am i thinking? but thats why i asked the question, to find the answer.

thanks.
paul

[RyuuzakiJulio]

fashion a double handle grip system similar to Markus Klinko's(oops, did I just mention his name ?).
I've been working on building one for my rz system. I like to use it on a tripod if I get the chance, but handheld is no problem either, at least for me. And I'm not a small guy.

Did you ever finish it?