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Author Topic: I'm going to buy a 3880 (or at least I think so)  (Read 6318 times)

Nigelfrommanchester

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I'm going to buy a 3880 (or at least I think so)
« on: October 10, 2009, 03:31:42 pm »

I've been using a 2100 since it was launched, and have been very happy with it. However, I did limit myself to Epson Archival Matte with a bought custom profile.

I'm intending to buy a 3880 because it isn't much bigger, prints A2, will save me money on inks, and I can afford one. I'd also like to print some pearl-type papers as well as matte.

Any advice on what papers I should try, and where best to buy them in the UK?

Thanks,

Nigel
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Jeremy Roussak

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I'm going to buy a 3880 (or at least I think so)
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2009, 05:46:20 am »

Quote from: Nigelfrommanchester
I've been using a 2100 since it was launched, and have been very happy with it. However, I did limit myself to Epson Archival Matte with a bought custom profile.

I'm intending to buy a 3880 because it isn't much bigger, prints A2, will save me money on inks, and I can afford one. I'd also like to print some pearl-type papers as well as matte.

Any advice on what papers I should try, and where best to buy them in the UK?

Thanks,

Nigel
I'd suggest Ilford Gold Fibre Silk. It's a nice, heavy paper and I'm very pleased with the results from my 3800. I get it from morco.uk.com; their prices seem to have risen just recently, but I've found them pleasant on the phone and reliable, and they're still pretty inexpensive (50 A2 £100).

Jeremy

PS: where in Manchester are you based?
« Last Edit: October 11, 2009, 05:49:03 am by kikashi »
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knweiss

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I'm going to buy a 3880 (or at least I think so)
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2009, 07:34:24 am »

Quote from: Nigelfrommanchester
Any advice on what papers I should try, and where best to buy them in the UK?
From the Epson papers I prefer Premium Semigloss over Premium Glossy. I also like Premium Luster.
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Czornyj

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I'm going to buy a 3880 (or at least I think so)
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2009, 08:22:06 am »

I'm also a fan of Gold Fibre Silk - I like the smell of baryta in the morning. Hahnemühle Baryta is also very nice, but whiter and not as smooth as Ilford.

Try to get some paper samples, even the less expansive types, you can find many interesting paper surfaces. For example - I've found an inexpansive paper called Solution Pyramid, that looks just like Kodak Endura Silk - I was asked many times about such paper, my clients like it for some reason.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2009, 08:32:04 am by Czornyj »
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StuartOnline

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I'm going to buy a 3880 (or at least I think so)
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2009, 08:37:53 am »

I too am looking at purchasing the new Epson 3880.
Waiting to read Michael's review on the 3880 which should be coming this week.

Currently I am using the Canon IPF5000 and just recently started using Gold Fibre Silk with that printer.
Gave it a try after watching one of Michael's videos Lightroom 2.0.
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Nigelfrommanchester

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I'm going to buy a 3880 (or at least I think so)
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2009, 02:51:28 pm »

Many thanks for all the paper suggestions so far. I am hoping to try some sample pieces too - I presume the printer will come with a pack of Epson samples.

I'm also waiting for some user reviews before spending my money. I don't expect a huge improvement over the 3800, and it doesn't matter as I don't have one. I do need to here that the drivers work well with PC and Mac, and that the canned profiles are a reliable start.

I did ponder over the 4880 since posting the initial message but have concluded it is too big for my needs. I'm not aware of any other 'compact' A2 printers.

Please keep up the recommendations.

Nigel
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Nigel Atkinson
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Conner999

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I'm going to buy a 3880 (or at least I think so)
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2009, 03:45:44 pm »

Have the 3800. For matte work it's wicked. Big fan of Epson VFA. For glossy or semi-glossy work, I should warn you that with the 3800, as with any printer using a pizza wheels vs vacuum feed/hold-down system, scratches on larger sheets (13x19 +) of glossy or SG papers from the 'pizza wheels' and other sharp bits in the feed path as the larger sheets swell in reaction to the ink lay-down and the damp ink start contacting bits they shouldn't are a possibility.

Note some 3800 users have no issues, some have issues across a wide variety of papers, some just with select papers/circumstances (heavy B&W areas, etc). Like any mechanical device there there are manufacturing variances involved. My 3800 was bad out of the box with 13x19 and larger Harman FB AL and no issues with IGFS in sizes up to 17x22. Now is scratching probably 1/2 my 13x19 and larger IGFS prints. Have tried ALL the usual checks and remedies and even the unusual ones (wetting paper backs) - no notable improvements. Front feed printing of glossy (as per Eric Chan's excellent site) with a backer board works if the paper is FLAT out of box, you handle the paper very carefully when inserting it and get the various thickness guesstimates right.

Matte papers  so far are no issues and again, neither are letter-sized Harman and IGFS as they don't seem to distort enough across their narrower width when wet to cause a problem during the feed process.

Again, just a heads up that you COULD see an issue. May not make an impact in your decision, hopefully will never be an issue, but just thought I'd toss you an FYI.

Personally, the 3800  while excellent in almost all respects, is my LAST printer lacking a vacuum hold-down system and am currently looking at a 48xx for my non-matte work. My PK ink tank is now empty and I intend to leave it that way. Wasted too much paper and time chasing remedies that never seem to solidly get rid of the issue.  With a vacuum style system, the 3800 would be the perfect printer for sheet work for someone who needs/wants to switch between PK and MK ink. I tend to prefer Epson, but my understanding (IIRC) is that the attractively priced Canon 5100 uses a vacuum system but I've never used one.

As for papers:
---------------
Matte: Have yet to try Epson USFA, but of all the various 'fine art' 'usual suspects' I've tried so far from Hahnemuehle, Harman and Epson, VFA is my fave for Dmax, saturation, subtle texture, etc.

SG/G: Harman FB AL (normal and warm-tone) is wicked for B&W, IGFS is my fave all-around SG paper (great performance, nice prices) and Epson Ex Fiber is simply excellent but spendy with a bit more texture, saturation and brilliance than IGFS. A paper I'd like to try is the new Photo Rag Baryta - gets great reviews.

Unfortunately as SG and G papers like FBAL, IGFS and EEF, etc strive to become more darkroom-like in terms of finish, Dmax, acuity, etc they also tend to become increasingly delicate, prone to distorting when heavy with wet ink and intolerant of contact with ANYTHING in the printer feed path when wet.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2009, 04:00:11 pm by Conner999 »
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NigelC

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I'm going to buy a 3880 (or at least I think so)
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2009, 04:59:40 pm »

Quote from: Conner999
Have the 3800. For matte work it's wicked. Big fan of Epson VFA. For glossy or semi-glossy work, I should warn you that with the 3800, as with any printer using a pizza wheels vs vacuum feed/hold-down system, scratches on larger sheets (13x19 +) of glossy or SG papers from the 'pizza wheels' and other sharp bits in the feed path as the larger sheets swell in reaction to the ink lay-down and the damp ink start contacting bits they shouldn't are a possibility.

Note some 3800 users have no issues, some have issues across a wide variety of papers, some just with select papers/circumstances (heavy B&W areas, etc). Like any mechanical device there there are manufacturing variances involved. My 3800 was bad out of the box with 13x19 and larger Harman FB AL and no issues with IGFS in sizes up to 17x22. Now is scratching probably 1/2 my 13x19 and larger IGFS prints. Have tried ALL the usual checks and remedies and even the unusual ones (wetting paper backs) - no notable improvements. Front feed printing of glossy (as per Eric Chan's excellent site) with a backer board works if the paper is FLAT out of box, you handle the paper very carefully when inserting it and get the various thickness guesstimates right.

Matte papers  so far are no issues and again, neither are letter-sized Harman and IGFS as they don't seem to distort enough across their narrower width when wet to cause a problem during the feed process.

Again, just a heads up that you COULD see an issue. May not make an impact in your decision, hopefully will never be an issue, but just thought I'd toss you an FYI.

Personally, the 3800  while excellent in almost all respects, is my LAST printer lacking a vacuum hold-down system and am currently looking at a 48xx for my non-matte work. My PK ink tank is now empty and I intend to leave it that way. Wasted too much paper and time chasing remedies that never seem to solidly get rid of the issue.  With a vacuum style system, the 3800 would be the perfect printer for sheet work for someone who needs/wants to switch between PK and MK ink. I tend to prefer Epson, but my understanding (IIRC) is that the attractively priced Canon 5100 uses a vacuum system but I've never used one.

As for papers:
---------------
Matte: Have yet to try Epson USFA, but of all the various 'fine art' 'usual suspects' I've tried so far from Hahnemuehle, Harman and Epson, VFA is my fave for Dmax, saturation, subtle texture, etc.

SG/G: Harman FB AL (normal and warm-tone) is wicked for B&W, IGFS is my fave all-around SG paper (great performance, nice prices) and Epson Ex Fiber is simply excellent but spendy with a bit more texture, saturation and brilliance than IGFS. A paper I'd like to try is the new Photo Rag Baryta - gets great reviews.

Unfortunately as SG and G papers like FBAL, IGFS and EEF, etc strive to become more darkroom-like in terms of finish, Dmax, acuity, etc they also tend to become increasingly delicate, prone to distorting when heavy with wet ink and intolerant of contact with ANYTHING in the printer feed path when wet.

Just wanted to add I have never had a problem with pizza wheels on glossy paper with mine - just checked an A2 print on Epson Premium Gloss from the other day - no probs - (from an upressed LX3  file, BTW - really amazingly good form such a tiny sensor).

For run of the mill, lustre/semi-gloss, Harman Crystal Jet Lustre is good, but suffers badly from head strikes - had to complete the job and substituted some samples of Permajet Oyster I had - really good and Permajets profiles better (IMHO) than Harman - looking forward to trying out Permajet Museum Classic - can get Permajet from Nova Darkroom, Morco, RK Photographic.
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Conner999

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I'm going to buy a 3880 (or at least I think so)
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2009, 05:38:35 pm »

Yeah, it really does seem to vary by printer copy - plus of course the sensitivity of the glossy/SG paper used to distort under ink, phase of the moon, goblins, etc.  I have read that the printer performs more consistently re: scratches with Epson papers, but that might just an old wives tale.  

I tested letter-size sheets of SG/G stock before settling on FBAL for B&W  glossy, IGFS as a color glossy and VFA for matte, but the scratch issue is only with larger-than-letter sheets.  Only issue I had with ltr sized was head strike on FA Baryta but that was due to some nasty paper curl that I failed to adjust for.

Problem is we all get attached to a fave papers and switching to others because your printer likes them better is disappointing, requires new profiles, more PP work to get the look you want (if even possible).

I could have lived with scratching just FBAL 13x19+ but when it started on IGFS as well after 6 mos or so, I threw up my hands. For matte, it rocks. That said, have yet to try the supposedly more delicate USFA, but have my fingers crossed. If it's delicate but stays flat under wet ink, it should be fine. It's the combination of both (delicate + distortion prone under ink) that greatly increases the odds of it you getting bitten in the backside.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2009, 03:33:06 pm by Conner999 »
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Nigelfrommanchester

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I'm going to buy a 3880 (or at least I think so)
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2009, 03:30:27 pm »

Many thanks for all the assistance. I have now ordered the 3880 plus some Ilford Gold to try alongside my trusty Archival Matte.

No idea how long it will take to appear though ...

Nigel
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Nigel Atkinson
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John77

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I'm going to buy a 3880 (or at least I think so)
« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2009, 04:11:12 pm »

Quote from: Nigelfrommanchester
Many thanks for all the assistance. I have now ordered the 3880 plus some Ilford Gold to try alongside my trusty Archival Matte.
Hi,

For IGFS, I have got rid of pizza marks by setting the platten gap to wider (on the printer panel) and the paper thickness to 4. Best price I know for IGFS and some others, Morco (link).

For matte, I like VFA but I like to use also Moab Entrada.

John.
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Conner999

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I'm going to buy a 3880 (or at least I think so)
« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2009, 06:40:20 pm »

IGFS is a great paper - is (was) my standard color paper. Pick up a custom color profile for it from Eric Chan - much better than stock Ilford profile.
VFA - my fave matte paper so far. Great Dmax and saturation. The mild texture vansihes under ink but gives print an almost 3D depth
Harman FBAL - amazing B&W, tried with Harman profile for color, but wasn't impressed. Would need a custom profile. Warm tone version also nice.
Epson EEF - a VERY VERY nice paper for color or B&W (using Eric's ABW profile)
USFA - nice, lacks the Dmax and pop of VFA, but very nice
Have a sample of Photo Rag Baryta but have yet to try - looks almost like a warmer version of Epson EEF

Buy lots of sample packs and print the same image on various papers and see what catches your eye.
 
On scratches with my 3800 (once only with Harman FBAL but now also with IGFS) - I've tried up to 5 for a thickness setting and Wider - make no difference in scratches. Neither does wetting the back of the sheet.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2009, 07:01:14 am by Conner999 »
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John77

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« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2009, 04:07:01 am »

Quote from: Conner999
On scratches with my 3800 (with IGFS) - I've tried up to 5 for a thickness setting and Wider - make no difference in scratches.
I believe you. I had the same problem. When I've tried the "wider" settings, I was following instruction found on a forum... They had mentioned specifically to set the platten gap, on the printer itself not only through the driver configuration. I agree, configuring on the driver or the printer panel should be the same. I cannot understand it myself... Maybe I have right now the good combination (Mac OS 10.5 - LR2 - Epson driver 6.11 - environment...) but it works. Not scratches.

Before that, I have also tried Eric Chan's trick using the front feeder. It works too.

Regards,

John.
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Conner999

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« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2009, 07:14:05 am »

John,

I'll give this a try, but don't have a high expectations given all the voodoo I've tried so far.  Hell, even removing the PWs hasn't helped. The 3800's a great printer, but an updated paper transport system would make it perfect for folks who only need to print sheets up to 17x22.  

This isn't specific to the 38xx by any means, but 1001 sharp bits in the paper path, no vacuum assist, ejection 'rollers' modeled after cowboy spurs and glossy/SG papers that distort when wet under ink as they strive to give us the acuity, Dmax, look, etc of darkroom prints and manufacturing variances between printer copies just don't mix.

It's coming up on 2010, how about some R&D on printer paper-handling mechanics..





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