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Author Topic: 5d Mark 2 problem  (Read 6761 times)

Wayne Fox

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5d Mark 2 problem
« on: October 09, 2009, 08:20:25 pm »

Going through some images from my recent trip I find a great many of exhibiting a problem I've not noticed before. I haven't shot a lot with this camera (normally shooting MF), but I've never seen a problem like this  Happens with both my 70-300 and 70-200, not as obvious with my wider lenses.
Full image, with 100% detail from extreme right side and left side of shot.   Most of the problems I'm seeing with the blurry part of the image appears  more like movement than out of focus on quite a few images, so I'm not sure a sensor alignment issue would explain this.

Am running some tests this weekend, any thoughts would be appreciated.

Mirror up, self timer, IS turned off, 1/125th at f 8.0


[attachment=17086:Full_image.jpg]
[attachment=17085:100percent.jpg]
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Eric Myrvaagnes

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« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2009, 09:52:58 pm »

To my eyes it looks like bad focus (on the left), suggesting alignment. (Ouch.)

Tuscany, right? Sure looks like Tuscany.

Eric

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eoghan

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« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2009, 10:00:58 pm »

Have you tried turning on Live view, zooming in on screen to maximum setting, setting lens on manual focus and then comparing that to your auto focus shots?
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agavephoto

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« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2009, 10:25:13 pm »

This looks like it could also be from a misaligned element (or several) inside the lens. My first 70-200 f/4 L had this issue. Sadly, this is not as uncommon as it should be what I gather. I would suggest finding a detailed subject with a regular pattern to test it with. Testing with several lenses carefully should show you if it's the lens or something you observe with all lenses.
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Wayne Fox

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5d Mark 2 problem
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2009, 10:25:31 pm »

Quote from: EricM
To my eyes it looks like bad focus (on the left), suggesting alignment. (Ouch.)

Tuscany, right? Sure looks like Tuscany.

Eric

yes, Tuscany.  I didn't look at many images closely during the trip (unfortunately).  Some of them the blur looks more like movement, but at this point I can't imagine anything other than an alignment problem.

Quote from: eoghan
Have you tried turning on Live view, zooming in on screen to maximum setting, setting lens on manual focus and then comparing that to your auto focus shots?

will be trying that tomorrow, along with comparisons shots with my 1DsMark3.  Guessing the camera will be headed to Canon on Monday.

Quote from: agavephoto
This looks like it could also be from a misaligned element (or several) inside the lens. My first 70-200 f/4 L had this issue. Sadly, this is not as uncommon as it should be what I gather. I would suggest finding a detailed subject with a regular pattern to test it with. Testing with several lenses carefully should show you if it's the lens or something you observe with all lenses.

This was with my 70-300 DO which just came back from Canon repair.  The 70-200 shots also showed some problems but possibly they were "different" problems. I'll look more closely at some from the 70-200 images.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2009, 10:31:44 pm by Wayne Fox »
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Geoff Wittig

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« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2009, 10:48:39 pm »

Quote from: Wayne Fox
Going through some images from my recent trip I find a great many of exhibiting a problem I've not noticed before. I haven't shot a lot with this camera (normally shooting MF), but I've never seen a problem like this  Happens with both my 70-300 and 70-200, not as obvious with my wider lenses.
Full image, with 100% detail from extreme right side and left side of shot.   Most of the problems I'm seeing with the blurry part of the image appears  more like movement than out of focus on quite a few images, so I'm not sure a sensor alignment issue would explain this.

Am running some tests this weekend, any thoughts would be appreciated.

Mirror up, self timer, IS turned off, 1/125th at f 8.0


[attachment=17086:Full_image.jpg]
[attachment=17085:100percent.jpg]

Field curvature?
I've seen similar softness, generally near but not at the edge of the image, using several different lenses (all zooms) and several different Canon full frame D-SLR's. I believe it's from field curvature, as it's sensitive to focal length, subject distance and aperture. For example, Canon's 24-70 f:2.8 L is extremely sharp at just about every focal length (at least my copy is), but I do get an area of softness on the left about 10% in from the edge that's most apparent for subjects about 50' away and at apertures of about f:8 to f:11. It becomes less evident at both wider and narrower apertures, which leads me to suspect that it's exaggerated field curvature that changes as the lens elements move around with zooming/focusing.
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asf

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« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2009, 01:44:26 am »

i've seen similar with longer zooms, pretty sure it's field curvature

shoot something with a prime or a wider zoom and compare
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francois

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« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2009, 11:50:48 am »

Wayne,
I had a very similar issue with a Nikon lens. But, it was only with a specific lens and swapping another lens didn't produce the same results.
In your case, it might well be a problem with your body. A couple of month ago I had my 1Ds3 checked at Canon for sensor and lens mount alignement and everything was perfectly within the specs. They sent me a report with measured values and tolerances.
I would definitely send my body to Canon.
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Francois

Hägar the horrible

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« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2009, 01:40:29 pm »

this is a lens problem, not camera related. It's probably just the mount on the lens side which needs adjustment. Sometimes people use such lenses on crop cameras for years without noticing and only see it by upgrading to FF.

If your camera mount or the sensor were tilted you would see it immediately by mounting a wide angle.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2009, 01:41:36 pm by Hägar the horrible »
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Wayne Fox

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« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2009, 02:53:20 pm »

After some testing today with both camera bodies it appears the lens is the problem as most of you have suggested.  Thx.  The 70-200 lens at 200mm cannot produce anything sharp at all on the left 20% of the image ... on both my 5dmk2 or 1dsmk3 this area is a blur, and even using live view/10x on this area of the image I can't get anything in focus.  Focusing on the center, the right side of the image is soft, but considerably better than the left ... it is pure mush.  Focusing on the right side of the image, the center is still acceptably sharp, but the left side is even worse.  I haven't tried other focal lengths yet, but reviewing the images from my trip focal length doesn't seem to matter much.  

The sample image I posted was from my 70-300 which also seems to have similar issues.  I'll be testing this later this afternoon. This seems quite coincidental to me, but the fact the both bodies are producing identical results with the 70-200 appears to rule out sensor alignment issues.

Greatly regretting not taking my PhaseOne system to italy at this point.

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Eric Myrvaagnes

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« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2009, 07:41:21 pm »

Quote from: Wayne Fox
Greatly regretting not taking my PhaseOne system to italy at this point.

But it gives you an excuse to make another trip to Italy, with the Phase One. Great place for landscape, wouldn't you say? 


My one trip there I had only a Canon 10D and an S60 point-and-shoot. I hope to get back some day with better equipment (although mine worked very well for what it was, with my 17-40/4 L getting the biggest workout).

Eric

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Wayne Fox

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« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2009, 04:32:33 pm »

Quote from: EricM
But it gives you an excuse to make another trip to Italy, with the Phase One. Great place for landscape, wouldn't you say? 


My one trip there I had only a Canon 10D and an S60 point-and-shoot. I hope to get back some day with better equipment (although mine worked very well for what it was, with my 17-40/4 L getting the biggest workout).

Eric

Definitely on my agenda ... hopefully next spring.
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Rob C

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« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2009, 10:23:50 am »

Quote from: Wayne Fox
Definitely on my agenda ... hopefully next spring.


Wayne

Different lenses, but I had the same trouble with my short-lived tenure of a Nikkor 2.8/24-70mm which was hopeless at the left side of the image at the wide end of the zoom. Perhaps a mistake to base it on one lens, but I hope never to repeat the purchase of a zoom; I never bought one before and wish I hadn't even once! I can't even hide behind the excuse of not knowing about the inevitable trade-offs with zooms - I just didn't realise how big those could be.

What astounds me today is reading comments from people who are actually willing to accept poor quality as a norm. With the price of those top-of-the-range things there shouldn't be any second- or third-rate sample out there in public. It is by accepting rubbish that yet more is seen as marketable and is foist upon us.

Rob C

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« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2009, 10:36:22 am »

Quote from: Rob C
What astounds me today is reading comments from people who are actually willing to accept poor quality as a norm. With the price of those top-of-the-range things there shouldn't be any second- or third-rate sample out there in public. It is by accepting rubbish that yet more is seen as marketable and is foist upon us.

I agree... but I assume that if more QC work was preformed before shipping it would increase the costs. I had quite a time of it trying to get a good copy of the Canon 24-70 f2.8L but it was worth it. Truly a good zoom can replace a prime if shooting at f5.6.
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caribsurf

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« Reply #14 on: November 23, 2009, 03:53:19 pm »

What you are experiencing is the identical problem that I experienced with my Canon EF 70-300m f/4.5-5.6 DO IS USM lens a couple of months ago. I was changing lenses placed the lens on a chair not noticing that the bottom sloped slightly and it rolled off and fell onto a thick carpet. Never though anything much of it until I was shooting some images of the exterior of a Stately Home. Viewing the images with the Magnifier Tool in BreezeBrowser, it was apparent that they were tack sharp on the righthand side of the frame but soft on the left. I retested the camera/lens combination by shooting a brick wall from a tripod, having carefully ensured that the setup was perpindicular/ level etc. I used an Aperture of f/8. The problem was there at every Focal Length I tried. I sent it back to Canon and they had to strip the DO optics down, rebuild and re-calibrate the lens. It is now "As new", but it took two weeks and £170 UK, which I did not think was too bad. Try the brick test at different Focal Lengths, it sounds like the same issue. If you put the lens in the hold of the airplane, the loaders have probably chucked the case around and the jarring has shifted one of the elements. Stephen
« Last Edit: November 23, 2009, 03:55:37 pm by caribsurf »
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Wayne Fox

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« Reply #15 on: November 23, 2009, 05:02:12 pm »

Thought I would update this thread since I started it ...

As one who has had "blind" trust in optics for a long time, I have learned a valuable lesson.  My 70-200 f/2.8 lens just returned from Canon, and they replaced the IS optical assembly.  The result is a lens that is now substantially and acceptably sharper at the edges.  I am suspecting my 70-300 DO may have a similar issue, especially after reading Stephens post.  It was recently repaired by Canon because the lock mechanism had failed, but it seems to be exhibiting the same symptoms ... very blurry at the edges.  Here is a another sample of just how bad my 70-200 lens was ...

[attachment=18141:TucanyHa..._MG_1293.jpg][attachment=18142:Detail.jpg]

So I will check my lenses frequently ... especially before investing in a major trip such as the one to Italy.  And IS will always be disabled when using a tripod, no matter that Canon says it should work fine.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2009, 02:04:17 pm by Wayne Fox »
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Nick Rains

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« Reply #16 on: November 24, 2009, 04:05:57 am »

Quote from: Wayne Fox
Thought I would update this thread since I started it ...

As one who has had "blind" trust in optics for a long time, I have learned a valuable.  My 70-200 f/2.8 lens just returned from Canon, and they replaced the IS optical assembly.  The result is a lens that is now substantially and acceptably sharper at the edges.  I am suspecting my 70-300 DO may have a similar issue, especially after reading Stephens post.  It was recently repaired by Canon because the lock mechanism had failed, but it seems to be exhibiting the same symptoms ... very blurry at the edges.  Here is a another sample of just how bad my 70-200 lens was ...

[attachment=18141:TucanyHa..._MG_1293.jpg][attachment=18142:Detail.jpg]

So I will check my lenses frequently ... especially before investing in a major trip such as the one to Italy.  And IS will always be disabled when using a tripod, no matter that Canon says it should work fine.


Good advice - my 17-40L had the same problem and is at Canon being fixed as we speak. Lots of shots from Laos from last month showed me the problem :-(
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