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Author Topic: Canon 5D now official - LL review soon??  (Read 16439 times)

Ray

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Canon 5D now official - LL review soon??
« Reply #20 on: August 23, 2005, 04:16:13 am »

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the D2x was already shown to offer better image quality that a 1DsII in the corner of wide angles shots, I don't see how the lower speced 5D would become more of a thread to it. Those who saw the 17-40 sample will have to agree with me on this one. I really hope than the final body will perform better,
Me too. This fall-off in performance at the edges of FF DSLRs is a real worry to those of us used to the cropped format. Sure I'll be interested to take wider angle shots than I've ever taken before with my Sigma 15-30, but I'll be a little upset if I see fuzzy edges.

Whenever I see a Photodo style MTF chart showing a curve that takes a precipitous dive as steep as an Olympic diving champion's trajectory, from almost the exact point of the cropped edge of a 20D frame, I think of all those owners of FF DSLRs and the tremendous pressure there must be on them to spend far more on good quaity lenses than they initially spent on their camera body.

It looks as though the 5D will be slightly cheaper (or should I say less expensive) than the D2X. If it is, I wouldn't be surprised if Nikon lowers its price when the 5D starts shipping.

I'd be much happier if Canon had offered a 12MP cropped format with at least marginally better image quality than the D2X as well as a better price.
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BernardLanguillier

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Canon 5D now official - LL review soon??
« Reply #21 on: August 23, 2005, 04:25:17 am »

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I've heard of some very good old Nikon lenses too, like the 20mm f/4.  Maybe some Nikon folk could tell us more about the history of Nikon wide angles.
Hi there,

I have heard of some people that were seeminly happy using a 17-35 f2.8 on their 1Ds.

Other classics with good reputation are the expensive 18 mm f2.8, 20mm f2.8, 24 mm f2.8.

Regards,
Bernard

kaelaria

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« Reply #22 on: August 23, 2005, 04:21:51 pm »

Don't worry - everyone lese here knows who was wrong and can't admit it
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BernardLanguillier

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Canon 5D now official - LL review soon??
« Reply #23 on: August 23, 2005, 11:26:50 pm »

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We all know that the superior image created by FF DSLR would do this with Canon's wide zooms. Why the surprise? I'll deal with it.
Hi Boku,

Without entering the debate as to whether the 5D is a better camera than the D2X, I have to say that the "belief" in the value of FF uber alles, and in opposition with the facts, is getting close to the case Michael described so well in its article about Digital vs film.

A theoretical belief that FF is better is being defended against the facts showing that APS sensors probably have overall the upper hand.

- Today, there is not clear evidence that FF sensors are less noisy even at high ISO. A comparision between the noise of the 20D vs 5D will clarify this (although the 5D being one year younger, a small edge could just result from that),
- There is clear evidence that FF sensors have problems with wide angle lenses,
- APS sized sensors have clear advantages on the long end,

The only 2 things that I can agree with is that FF cameras provide some value for those looking for shallow DOF, and for those who are not willing to invest into digital lenses. Considering that FF cameras are inherently more expensive, I find the second argument rather dubious, but can understand the feeling.

For the rest, I don't see the "superior" image you write about below. If I were a Canon user, I would also have prefered a 12 MP 30D instead of the current FF 5D.

Regards,
Bernard

BernardLanguillier

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Canon 5D now official - LL review soon??
« Reply #24 on: August 24, 2005, 04:09:09 am »

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The big knock on Canon lenses has only been with regard to the WA lenses not the rest of the line, particularly the telephotos that are the reason most sports photographers use Canon.
John,

Although I agree that Canon big guns are amazing lenses, their quality does probably have very little to do with their wide acceptance.

It mostly results from them providing USM years before their Nikon counterparts. The addition of VR and of some good DSLR did re-inforce this, but the initial move was mainly the result of good AF.

Regards,
Bernard

izaack

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Canon 5D now official - LL review soon??
« Reply #25 on: August 24, 2005, 07:03:42 am »

There are more samples shot on the 5D by two Japanese photographers on this website:

http://www.canon-sales.co.jp/camera/5d/index.html

You have to be patient enough to find the pictures. If you look at the Japanese menu bar right at the bottom of the screen, it is the third one from the left. Click on it and "Gallery" appears in English. Then click on the image of either of the photographers and his portfolio starts loading.
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Tibor22

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« Reply #26 on: August 24, 2005, 06:49:40 pm »

Thank you for your opinion which I respect.
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davidr805

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« Reply #27 on: August 24, 2005, 08:36:51 pm »

"Someone please end this post. Start a new one on the Canon 5D."

I agree MJohnJ,   we should make a new post on canon 5D .. I look on this post to learn about the new camera .. I am actually planing on buying one .. 20D possible the 5D ..

David
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DarkPenguin

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Canon 5D now official - LL review soon??
« Reply #28 on: September 02, 2005, 07:41:21 pm »

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To Jonathan,
     You obvioiusly see no fault in yourself regarding this or any of your previous posts. You may rationalize it and say we're just boors or not up to your intellectual capacity. I'm sure you can find some reason to keep from turning the mirror on yourself. But once again, we can't all be wrong, all the time. And the fact that so many of us respond to you this way speaks more about you and the way you come across than it does about us. Now let's see if you can take the high road and let someone else have the last word for a change.
Oh, save us, save us, please, from all the bad bad Jonathan posts.  Cause, you know, none of us were able to cope before.
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Jonathan Wienke

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« Reply #29 on: September 02, 2005, 10:22:44 pm »

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But once again, we can't all be wrong, all the time. And the fact that so many of us respond to you this way speaks more about you and the way you come across than it does about us.
Yep. Even when every one of the people calling me insulting names is a newbie here with a single or double-digit post count. Criticisms from such sources do not impress me; it's very rare for people who start their participation in a forum by calling people "douche bags" to ultimately contribute anything meaningful or worthwhile long-term to a forum. Perhaps you and Tibor22 will be exceptions to that general principle, but I doubt it. I really don't care what you think of me; your posts so far are a clear indication that your respect and esteem is not worth cultivating. I care much more what people like Jack Flesher and Bob Kulon and Didger (God rest his soul) and Andrew Rodney and Bernard Languillier and others like them think of me, who consistently contribute informative, well written, and interesting posts here, and know how to disagree without being disagreeable.

In all my years of participation here, I have never engaged in the kind of name-calling and gratuitous personal insults that you and Tibor22 directed my way. And don't expect me to believe that you really intended that last paragraph for me alone; if that was really your intent, you could have emailed me, sent me an instant message, or PM'd me through this board. There's a link for each of those options under every one of my posts.
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LesGirrior

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« Reply #30 on: August 25, 2005, 02:13:01 pm »

Can we all have a group hug?

/hug
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Jonathan Wienke

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« Reply #31 on: August 26, 2005, 10:14:33 am »

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I might be guilty of what has happened here (though I honestly didnt want to start all this, neither do I recall using any "names" or insults..)
You didn't start anything, and while you were critical of me, you certainly did not engage in the over-the-top name-calling and rudeness of heavysigh and Tibor22. I don't mind a frank discussion/debate, as long as it remains reasonably civil. You did, they didn't.
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Khurram

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« Reply #32 on: August 22, 2005, 11:14:09 am »

is there any official USA or Canadian prices for the two new cameras yet?
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RobertJ

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« Reply #33 on: August 22, 2005, 04:21:47 pm »

And I like how the experts on here said the 5D was just a photoshopped 10D, and if it is real, it won't be full-frame.  Good call guys.  :D
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John Camp

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« Reply #34 on: August 22, 2005, 05:21:33 pm »

Somebody over on Digital Camera Review posed a high-res 5D landscape shot from the Canon website, calling attention to the grass in the corners. I'm not as fussy as a lot of people, but the corners of that shot would not be acceptable to me; blades of grass, perfectly articulated towards the center of the shot, become a green blur. Is the same true with a 1DSMII? Another question -- I've heard that people have been using Contax wide angles on their Canon FF SLRs. Does this solve the wide-angle problem? Can the Contax lenses talk to the camera, or are they only usable in manual mode? In Michael's review, he sniped at Canon for a lack of easy mirror lock-up. I'm sure he knows what he's talking about, but it seems to me that Canon desperately needs some new wide angle lenses before *anything* else.

JC

(Nothing said above is meant to imply that the 5D can't make beautiful photographs, and I'm sure they will be used to do just that billions of times.)
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Tibor22

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« Reply #35 on: August 22, 2005, 11:09:01 pm »

Try taking an enema
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Digiteyesed

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« Reply #36 on: August 23, 2005, 03:00:11 am »

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I'm real happy with my 20D--been using it for a year now and it's quite able for my needs --5fps for high school sports and a23 frame buffer.  With a 16x lexar card, I often can take over 30 images before the buffer runs out.

My 20D is also serving me well and I don't see myself upgrading until well into next year. My most pressing need is a decent tele lens so that will be where my money goes next.
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lester_wareham

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« Reply #37 on: August 23, 2005, 07:42:11 am »

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A lot of people noticed that picture, why the heck they used the 17-40L at 17mm (exif) for an example of picture quality on FF I'll never know.
Not that any other Canon WA are much better. I presume it was to show a true WA view.

As the 1.6 crop factor owners can get this using the EF-S 10-22 I assume this is targeted at 1.3 crop factor owners and those with a 10D that have not yet upgraded.

I am pleasently surprised to see full frame filtering down to "non-pro" bodies so soon. I predicted it would happen but did not expect it for another couple of years. Also the spot meter and RGB histogram looks useful (most missed 20D features).

As I have just got the 20D I will probably wait for the next generation of the 5D, but it makes planning the lens system simplier.
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heavysigh

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« Reply #38 on: August 23, 2005, 11:59:51 pm »

Jonathan,
    It's not about a dissenting opinion. An honest, intellectual discussion is always welcome. But looking through the forum and seeing the number of out and out arguments you engender, I can't help but feel we can't all be wrong. Frankly, you come off as obnoxious and insecure.
    My original posting of June 30 was simply a good natured attempt to pass along information to fellow photographers about a possible new Canon DSLR. The first sentence of my thread started with "Please don't kill the messenger".
    Your response was once again "rectum" talk and that I should take my thread off of The Luminous Landscape and over to DPReview. Who died and made you the arbiter of photography forums? It's not your website so once again, lighten up. If you don't have anything constructive to contribute, then fine. Feel free to be aloof and disagreeable. But don't act surprised if some of us think less of you for it.
     And that's about all I have to say on the matter because really, who cares? This is both tiresome and a temptest in a teacup. I'm sure we'd all much rather read about photography, anyway.
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boku

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« Reply #39 on: August 24, 2005, 06:53:27 pm »

Quote
Quote
We all know that the superior image created by FF DSLR would do this with Canon's wide zooms. Why the surprise? I'll deal with it.
Hi Boku,

Without entering the debate as to whether the 5D is a better camera than the D2X, I have to say that the "belief" in the value of FF uber alles, and in opposition with the facts, is getting close to the case Michael described so well in its article about Digital vs film.

A theoretical belief that FF is better is being defended against the facts showing that APS sensors probably have overall the upper hand.

- Today, there is not clear evidence that FF sensors are less noisy even at high ISO. A comparision between the noise of the 20D vs 5D will clarify this (although the 5D being one year younger, a small edge could just result from that),
- There is clear evidence that FF sensors have problems with wide angle lenses,
- APS sized sensors have clear advantages on the long end,

The only 2 things that I can agree with is that FF cameras provide some value for those looking for shallow DOF, and for those who are not willing to invest into digital lenses. Considering that FF cameras are inherently more expensive, I find the second argument rather dubious, but can understand the feeling.

For the rest, I don't see the "superior" image you write about below. If I were a Canon user, I would also have prefered a 12 MP 30D instead of the current FF 5D.

Regards,
Bernard
Bernard,

Since I am commited the Canon system because I have a huge investement, my motivation is to get more pixels in the cheapest manner. For that, the 5D works. Whether or not a 5D or a D2X is technically better image maker really doesn't matter. I am not that tedious.

All I am trying to do is get to consistently sharp 16x24 prints without worrying about it. I am sure either will do and the differences are for the others to worry about.

My comment meant to state that the 5D will create a superior inage to what I have now. Although I said this was because of full frame, I meant because of resolution and the fact that I am certain that there would be no less or equal noise compared to my 20D. I went on further to state that I expected soft corner performance from 17-40 and would tolerate it.

When I stated that, the Nikon alternative never even entered my mind. I just have no time for the science any more. I barely have enough time for photography.

I appreciate your point though. I just have no way of dealing with agreeing with it or refuting it. It's plausible, I guess.
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Bob Kulon

Oh, one more thing...[b
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