Recommendations for inexpensive double-sided paper

[Lisa Nikodym]

Every year, I make calendars for family & friends, using double-sided paper.  In the past, I've used Inkjetart's "duo brite matte" paper, because it was reasonable quality and inexpensive (about US$1 per 13"x19" sheet, if I recall correctly).  However, they've discontinued it.  Can anyone recommend any other 13"x19" double-sided reasonable-quality paper that is relatively inexpensive?  I'd like to keep it under about US$2 per sheet if possible, and am happy to purchase up to 100 sheets.  I don't care between matte, semigloss & glossy, as long as the colors don't look overly muddy and one can write on it.  I'm printing on an Epson 3800.

Thanks,
Lisa

[Paul Sumi]

Can anyone recommend any other 13"x19" double-sided reasonable-quality paper that is relatively inexpensive?  I'd like to keep it under about US$2 per sheet if possible, and am happy to purchase up to 100 sheets.

Lisa, I use Moab Paper's Entrada Rag as my matte paper for fine art photography (Epson 2400).  The 190 gsm paper comes in a 2-sided version at 13x19. However, it is above your price range:

http://moabpaper.com/entrada-rag-bright-190/

Moab has another 2-sided matte paper, Kayenta, which I have not used.  But the price is right:

http://moabpaper.com/kayenta-photo-matte-205/

Moab offers sampler boxes so you can see if it fits your needs:

http://moabpaper.com/sample-boxes/

Paul

[chilehead]

Red River Aurora is a good, inexpensive double-sided fine art paper.   Red River also has a sampler pack for pigment printers.

Red River Aurora

It works fine in the sheet feeder on the 3800.  (One at a time.)

Mark

[ssgphoto]

the moab lasal photo matte 235 cant be beat for the price, and it has excellent quality, less than $1  sheet.

[Lisa Nikodym]

Thanks!  I'm ordering sample packs.  The moab lasal paper is quite cheap - if it looks OK that will be a very good thing.  If the Kayenta or Aurora look considerably better, well, then, they're acceptably priced too!

You've been very helpful.

Lisa

[Murph]

Kayenta is GREAT paper, I used it for a long time, and still have some left.  Its what you are wanting.

Lisa, I use Moab Paper's Entrada Rag as my matte paper for fine art photography (Epson 2400).  The 190 gsm paper comes in a 2-sided version at 13x19. However, it is above your price range:

http://moabpaper.com/entrada-rag-bright-190/

Moab has another 2-sided matte paper, Kayenta, which I have not used.  But the price is right:

http://moabpaper.com/kayenta-photo-matte-205/

Moab offers sampler boxes so you can see if it fits your needs:

http://moabpaper.com/sample-boxes/

Paul

[Peter McLennan]

In the past, I've used Inkjetart's "duo brite matte" paper, because it was reasonable quality and inexpensive (about US$1 per 13"x19" sheet, if I recall correctly).  However, they've discontinued it.
Thanks,
Lisa

Darn.  This has been my main paper in rolls and cut sheets for the last five years.  I love it and I'm running low on stock.  

I'd love to hear what you think about the replacement options you find, Lisa.

Have you tried inkjetart's "Inkpress" line?  It seems reasonably priced, too.

[Lisa Nikodym]

Darn. This has been my main paper in rolls and cut sheets for the last five years. I love it and I'm running low on stock.

Peter, their web site still seems to have sheets of something called "Duo Brite Duplex", but I don't know anything about it (and it's only sheets in a couple of sizes, not rolls).  A search of their web site for "duo brite" only turns up one more thing, "Discontinued InkJetArt Deluxe Duo Brite Matte" 17"x25" sheets.  Based on that, I'm assuming they've discontinued everything else related.  I don't know a thing about their "Inkpress" paper, unfortunately.

I've ordered a Moab sample pack to test some of their double-sided papers, and will let you know what I think of them.  I never thought the duo brite matte was the greatest of papers, but it was OK for calendars and it was cheap.  I hope either the Moab Lasal or Moab Kayenta will work out as well or better.
 
Lisa

[Tony B.]

Lisa, when  you find another paper that works please post what you found and how you liked it compared to the inkjetart duo brite matte.

If you have problems finding a paper please PM me.  When I found out inkjetart was discontinuing the duo brite matte I bought there stock.  I still have some 13x19 left.

I would really like to see how you do your calendars.  Here is an image of one of mine on 13x19.  My biggest problem is the paper curling.  I am not sure if any low cost matte paper would do this or not.  I also do not know if its the ink on the paper causing the issue or humidity (I run a swamp cooler in the summer).

[attachment=16571:IMG_1177.jpg]

Tony

[Lisa Nikodym]

Lisa, when you find another paper that works please post what you found and how you liked it compared to the inkjetart duo brite matte.

If you have problems finding a paper please PM me. When I found out inkjetart was discontinuing the duo brite matte I bought there stock. I still have some 13x19 left.

I would really like to see how you do your calendars. Here is an image of one of mine on 13x19. My biggest problem is the paper curling. I am not sure if any low cost matte paper would do this or not. I also do not know if its the ink on the paper causing the issue or humidity (I run a swamp cooler in the summer).

OK, Tony, I'll let you know what kind of paper I decide on.  I'm still waiting for the sample packs to arrive, and will probably do some test prints the first weekend after they're here.

I've attached a sample page from the calendar I made for this year.  I didn't use any kind of template or program, but just built it myself in Photoshop.

The last two years or so that I've used duo brite matte, I've had problems with it curling too (as you can probably see in the attached photo), but it  arrived that way.  When I first started using it several years before, it didn't seem to do that.  One of the things I'll be looking for in the sample sheets is whether they seem to be curled.

Lisa


(P.S.  I just noticed that your paper curling is about the opposite axis from mine.  Weird!)
(P.P.S.  I also noticed that you erroneously have a September 31!  Don't feel bad, in my calendar this year there was no July 31.  Oops!  The hazards of working from scratch without helpful software...)

[Tony B.]

Hi Lisa, as you noticed, when making calendars from scratch I seem to always have errors.  It does not matter how many family/friends look it over they always some error in them.  I was never able to find any software that I liked they look of the layout.

The difference in they way the paper warps might be between long and short grain.  Even the 8.5 x 11 calendars do that.

I like the look your calendar has having the light background color.  Are you printing about an 8x10 image?  I can put up to a 12x12 image.  A 12x11 image looks best because it looks more square on the paper.  I have found that I have to really pay attention when taking a photo that might be on my 13x19 calendar is there is a lot of cropping to make it a square image.

Enjoy this years calendar making season.  I always love going through my year of photo's for the calendars.  I have been making about 50 calendars a year with around 5 varities of images so people living around each other will have different photo's to look at when they visit.

I can not imagine that the Moab papers will be any worse than the duo brite matte paper.  With this post you started I will have ideas of where to look once I run out of duo brite matte.

Tony

[KeithR]

I know I'm coming into this a little late, but you might want to check out some of the papers from Hawk Mountain Papers, specifically Sparrowhawk:
http://www.hawkmtpaper.com/grayhawk.htm

[Lisa Nikodym]

Hi Lisa, as you noticed, when making calendars from scratch I seem to always have errors. It does not matter how many family/friends look it over they always some error in them. I was never able to find any software that I liked they look of the layout.

The difference in they way the paper warps might be between long and short grain. Even the 8.5 x 11 calendars do that.

I like the look your calendar has having the light background color. Are you printing about an 8x10 image? I can put up to a 12x12 image. A 12x11 image looks best because it looks more square on the paper. I have found that I have to really pay attention when taking a photo that might be on my 13x19 calendar is there is a lot of cropping to make it a square image.

Enjoy this years calendar making season. I always love going through my year of photo's for the calendars. I have been making about 50 calendars a year with around 5 varities of images so people living around each other will have different photo's to look at when they visit.

I can not imagine that the Moab papers will be any worse than the duo brite matte paper. With this post you started I will have ideas of where to look once I run out of duo brite matte.

This was actually the first time in my five years or so of making calendars that I had an error (at least one that I noticed).  I was surprised that noone mentioned the missing July 31 to me.    I only make eight calendars, though, just for close friends and family (and one for myself), so a package of 50 sheets is just right with two extra to screw up...

For horizontal images, they're 7"x10.5".  For verticals, they're squished somewhat smaller so the long direction is 8.5".  Each page has a different background color (in a gradient from top to bottom), with the color chosen to complement that month's image.  I always use an ascpect ratio of 1.5:1 for my photos, and don't want to worry about how to crop for the calendars, so I keep the same aspect ratio all the time.

They're fun to make, and mean that I don't have to try to figure out what to get seven people for Christmas every year.  

Lisa

[ssgphoto]

I print a ton on the hahnmeuhle photorag for myself and clients on the 9800 and a canon ipf9000. I tried the lasal matte for my portfolio and have was really impressed with how well it reproduces. For the price the mob lasal really prints extremely well, IMHO more accurately than the hahnemuhle duo .  The entrada is great as well, not quite as smooth and a touch warmer. I hope that helps.

[Lisa Nikodym]

Well, I got the Moab sample pack and tried the Kayenta and Lasal papers.  (The Entrada paper is also a fine paper, but about three times more expensive; it could be nice for art prints, but I considered it too expensive for calendars.)  The Kayenta is slightly more expensive than the Lasal, but not by much.  Both were fine papers for my purpose, and produced slightly better-looking prints than the Inkjetart Duo Brite Matte that I had been using (which I think was a similar price) - they had a slightly less muddy look and slightly sharper edges on text and lines than the DBM (but not a huge difference).  The surface texture on the Lasal was similar to that of DBM (which is, not much texture), while the Kayenta had a bit more surface texture that I thought was nice-looking.

I think the Kayenta was maybe marginally sharper than the Lasal, but the Lasal is a slightly thicker paper (235 vs. 205).  However, I decided to go with the Kayenta because the Lasal had a slight waviness to it after printing (presumably having to do with the ink sinking in) that the Kayenta didn't.

There was a slight curvature to the 8-1/2"x11" papers straight out of the box, so I'd expect to see some curvature to the larger sheets too.  Probably less than I saw with the DBM I used last year, though, would be my guess.

I'm going with Kayenta...

Lisa

P.S.  The once annoyance is that the Moab web site suggests setting "media type" in the printer driver to "Ultrasmooth Fine Art" for both the Kayenta & Lasal papers; when you set that, the driver then prevents you from using the auto sheet feeder, requiring you to use one of the single-sheet manual feed slots.  Grrrrr.  I tried a second Kayenta test print in which I set the media type to Enhanced Matte so I could use the auto sheet feeder, but it came out with somewhat muddier-looking colors, which wasn't great.  Unless someone can suggest an override to the manual-feed requirement, I'll be feeding my calendar pages one at a time and grumbling at Epson about it...

[Paul Sumi]

P.S.  The once annoyance is that the Moab web site suggests setting "media type" in the printer driver to "Ultrasmooth Fine Art" for both the Kayenta & Lasal papers; when you set that, the driver then prevents you from using the auto sheet feeder, requiring you to use one of the single-sheet manual feed slots.

I don't have the Epson 3800, so no guarantees that this will 1) work and 2) not damage the printer.

Try opening the printing preferences in the Epson printer driver.  Set the media type to Ultrasmooth Fine Art, then change the "Manual-Roll" setting to "Sheet."  Then save the custom setting with a name like "Kayenta" and see if it'll allow printing from the sheet feeder.

Paul

[Ernst Dinkla]

I don't have the Epson 3800, so no guarantees that this will 1) work and 2) not damage the printer.

Try opening the printing preferences in the Epson printer driver.  Set the media type to Ultrasmooth Fine Art, then change the "Manual-Roll" setting to "Sheet."  Then save the custom setting with a name like "Kayenta" and see if it'll allow printing from the sheet feeder.

Paul

No 3800 here either but if I recall it correctly the 3800 has no roll option.


met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla

Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/

[Lisa Nikodym]

Try opening the printing preferences in the Epson printer driver. Set the media type to Ultrasmooth Fine Art, then change the "Manual-Roll" setting to "Sheet." Then save the custom setting with a name like "Kayenta" and see if it'll allow printing from the sheet feeder.

I'm afraid the printer driver doesn't let me do anything like that, or I would have tried it.  When I choose Ultrasmooth Fine Art, a warning window pops up telling me that it won't allow me to use the auto sheet feeder, and, indeed, that choice becomes grayed out.

I don't know why Epson decided that Ultrasmooth Fine Art paper is inappropriate for the auto sheet feeder.  I thought that some papers are manual-feed-only just because they are too thick for the auto sheet feeder, but the Kayenta and Lasal are not particularly thick papers.

Lisa

[Paul Sumi]

I'm afraid the printer driver doesn't let me do anything like that, or I would have tried it.  When I choose Ultrasmooth Fine Art, a warning window pops up telling me that it won't allow me to use the auto sheet feeder, and, indeed, that choice becomes grayed out.

Weird.  My 2400's printer driver lets me choose the sheet feeder with Ultrasmooth Fine Art paper.  Perhaps Moab's tech support can offer suggestions for a work-around?

Paul

[chilehead]

Lisa,

You might try increasing the print density a bit when using the enhanced matte type.  I usually start with 10, and increase by 5.  When the ink starts to pool, you know it's time to stop.

(Just in case:  Ink density is set in "Paper Config", in the "Advanced" settings area.)

Mark