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Author Topic: 1DsII vs Scanned 4x5 redux  (Read 6586 times)

didger

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1DsII vs Scanned 4x5 redux
« Reply #20 on: December 22, 2004, 12:05:12 pm »

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Consider yourself pardoned
Thanks.  Now, I guess if I find a huge winning lottery ticket on the sidewalk I'll get a p25 system after all.
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Peep away -- But for me, the proof is always in the final print...
Yeah, it would be for me too, but a direct print comparison is not available to me and in the absence of even crop peeping, I'll remain a bit unconvinced about anything.  One fellow some time back opined strongly in favor of the Sigma 12-24 lens and now his is on ebay.  The objective facts haven't changed.
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So IMO the real issue comes down to your "normal" maximum print sizes...
Yeah, well, since I'm not printing anything yet I'd be OK with a home made pin hole camera.  However, I'd like to be able to print 30x40 eventually and not just so they're sort of OK from a big enough distance.  I'm hoping that Mamiya ZD will do the trick because I doubt that anything digital and backpackable will ever get much better.  It's not all just vaporous musings.  I've got a guy that has a big super high end fine art printing plant and big gallery distribution of prints (of paintings) that's interested in doing something with my photographs and I suspect that he might do a little trial thing with some 1ds images, but that Mamiya ZD would be the least he'd settle for eventually.  He does really big really expensive really high quality prints and that's what his customers expect.
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didger

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1DsII vs Scanned 4x5 redux
« Reply #21 on: December 22, 2004, 03:25:42 pm »

Well, the whole deal is nowhere near enough of a "deal" so far to base any radical gear changes and immediate extra expenses on.  There's no hurry; he's expecting a collection of images to review about next Spring and he knows they're 1ds.  After I see if the pie in the sky really comes down to Earth, I can let him tell me what format he wants.  He knows about them all and what can be done with them.  For now, more 1ds.  I've already been educated about 4x5 backpackability (if you're crazy enough to consider a 1ds kit backpackable) and low equipment cost of 4x5  and I know if ZD doesn't end up quite good enough the next step has to be 4x5, but definitely not right now.  I want to continue my training wasting nothing but electrons, not film and processing.
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nnmmaa

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1DsII vs Scanned 4x5 redux
« Reply #22 on: December 22, 2004, 09:35:00 pm »

May I timidly dip my oar in this murky water?

Jack's observations drawn from  comparing prints speak for themselves and they are exciting for FF dDLR shooters. But the detail that any digital sensor can capture depends on the pixlel pitch, and the aliasing filter. Ultimately, the result has to be in accord with the sampling theorem. Looking at the print, as in Jack's study, does not  shed much light on the situation - i.e. it is hard to extrapolate those observations to other lenses and imaging situations. Assuming that the lens is the weakest link in the chain for 4x5, the question is how much detail will be recorded on the film that is above the noise threshold. Under some situations it is plausible that the 1DsMKII could look better on the print, but i don't think we can assume that will be the case for all  MF lenses and imaging situations. The most objective test I can think of would be to choose a lens and try to shoot a line source and compute the MTF after raw coversion. Then we could see how limiting the 1DsMkII sensor is.

On the other hand, just because the scanned 4x5 has more pixels in the  image does not ensure that the resolution is higher. Once you have enough pixels to capture the info passed by the lens and satisfy the sampling theorem, adding more does not gain much.

This is a complicated business.

Just my $0.02.
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didger

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1DsII vs Scanned 4x5 redux
« Reply #23 on: December 23, 2004, 06:13:21 pm »

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shoot a portfolio of identical images with your 1DsII, 1Ds, 4x5, MF digital etc, and produce a set of prints of the highest quality that you can manage and compare them side by side.
Most of us would find much less comprehensive testing than that a bit out of reach.  We have to settle for whatever facts and tests are accessible to us.  Based on what facts I have seen and direct experience reports from the likes of Michael and taking into account my work flow preferences I'm fairly confident that I'll end up settling with MF digital and being quite productive and satisfied with 1ds until that's possible.
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