Wagner Sprayer

[Craig Murphy]

Got myself the Wagner sprayer.  Just some observations.  Certainly makes you feel a little less like your going to wreck a canvas using this as opposed to rolling.  Easy to do indoors too.  Really not much overspray etc. Some things to get used to though.  I can see that the right and left side can get over sprayed easily.  Gotta watch my spray pattern/speed.  A back light would make it easier to actually see the spray coming out so you can tell how its going.  Going to try that next time.  I'm using Glamour II at about 60% Glamour 40% distilled water.

[bill t.]

Even if you have a backlight, helps if you make tick marks about 3 to 5 inches apart on the sides of your canvas.  Spray from one mark to the other.  On alternate coats interpolate between the tick marks.  Spacing depends on the fan size, the ticks should be about 1/2 the width of the oval.

Couple thoughts on the Wagner...

Pay close attention to the gun speed as well as distance.  Helps to have somebody watch you spray, almost everybody tends to not keep a constant distance and speed and they can spot you doing it.

If your gun seems to be spraying more on the sides, you don't have the right distance or volume.  Spray short blasts on some dark scrap material without moving the gun.  Look at the pattern you get on the surface, then adjust distance and volume until you get the best looking elongated oval.  In any case max spraying distance should be no more than 9 inches.  The Wagner lacks a needle position adjustment, too bad.  But adjusting volume and distance goes a long way to a good pattern.

40% water is in the ball park.  If your coatings seem sandpapery, you may need to go a little more dilute or increase your spray volume, or get closer.

Be sure to keep the all-too-tiny air filter openings clean.  Almost all spraying problems with the Wagner is caused by clogged air filters.  On my original model I had to remove a few screws to get to it.  It was possible to peel off thin layers of the dirty filter material.

Also, the gasket between the tank and the gun handle needs to be kept very clean.  In particular the slots in the gasket that pressurize the tank should not be glued shut.  The tanks needs to be screwed on tightly to hold enough pressure for good flow.   Best to avoid getting the gasket wet with paint by holding the gun carefully.  Paint on the gasket can be removed by rubbing under hot water.

Be sure to thoroughly clean the gun right after each use.  Spray hot water with the max flow adjustment, thoroughly rinse the spray head with hot water, and an occasional extended soak is a good idea.

Look out for little skinned-paint circles that will form on the nozzle between passes, those will mess up the pattern and will wind up about 1 foot into your print if you don't remove them,

Typically, Lowes & Depot do not stock replacement filters or gaskets!  But I think you can buy them online.

BTW cheap 3M #8511 masks are a good choice for lung protection, of all the ones I tried those are the only ones that don't get soggy, don't make you feel like you're in a sauna, and don't blow steamy air onto your glasses.  But in any case don't spray without a mask, the effects will creep up on you suddenly and it ain't pleasant.

[Craig Murphy]

Thanks Bill for all the tips.  Already seen one of those paint circles.  I see you have to really check over the print right away in order to pick off any anomalies.  I've been doing that with a pin for any dust spots.

Just finished the second coat an a 16x40 and wound up with more GlamII on the bottom half.   Tried your tic mark idea.  A good one.  Keeps your mind on where your going.    I'm still thinking about speed when spraying so its not totally consistent yet.  Hence the coverage problem.  Will take a little practice.   This Glamour II smooths out so nice at the end of its drying cycle I'm not worried about it.  I'll do a third pass on this one.

Been using my double filter mask.  Its a little cumbersome but I already have it.

I think I am going to go 50/50 next time I mix.

[Paul2660]

You can find most of the parts here:

http://www.gleempaint.com/control-spray-parts.html

As Bill mentioned, the air filter will get dirty very quickly and is IMO hard to clean.  

Paul Caldwell
www.photosofarkansas.com

[john milich]

from much experience spray painting:
place an exhaust fan on the far side, drawing the air over the work and pushing it away.
work in as dust free an area as possible...don't do any sweeping before spraying
place your lighting so you can see the flowing out of the paint as you lay it down
plan on spraying past the edges to avoid edge buildup
spray from the edge near you first, working toward the back edge, same direction as the fan air movement

[Craig Murphy]

Thanks much for the tips Paul and John!  I decided to try the Wagner because I didn't feel like buying a compressor.  Speaking of compressors.  Anyone using a regular HVLP gun what kind of compressor specs are you needing?  CFS etc.

[bill t.]

I use the strongest Q4 turbine (compressor) that Fuji offers, with the air valve all the way open.  This is based on the advice of a fine-furniture maker.  Works great, terrific atomization and extremely wide spray patterns (up to about 16" wide).  It never throws drops and has never messed up a canvas without my help.  Takes a bit of practice before putting the pedal to the metal, but by the time you reach your 100th canvas the glamour of applying GlamourII will have mostly worn off and you'll appreciate the ability to blast on the coatings real fast.  But smaller turbines work well too, just not quite as fast.

Probably best not to use a "conversion" gun for HVLP work, the type that has an air regulator on it and that uses a standard shop-style compressor.  That's a very inefficient setup, you need an extremely large compressor and tank to just keep up with rather modest spraying, not to mention the floorspace required.  A true HVLP turbine is very compact can be easily stowed on a shelf between uses.

[Neuffy]

Bill T.:

The Fuji Q4 system looks quite compelling. One thing I've got to ask, since you seem to have used one a fair bit, is just how much noise do they generate? They're listed as "Quiet", but that's a relative term and I couldn't find a decibel reading.

Actually, what I'd dream about is a system quiet enough to use at night in an apartment block, but I'm willing to bet that's just nonexistent. 60 decibels is quieter than anything I've ever seen rated. Thank god I don't have that crazy requirement myself.

Thanks.

[bill t.]

The Fuji Q4 system looks quite compelling. One thing I've got to ask, since you seem to have used one a fair bit, is just how much noise do they generate? They're listed as "Quiet", but that's a relative term and I couldn't find a decibel reading.

Actually, what I'd dream about is a system quiet enough to use at night in an apartment block, but I'm willing to bet that's just nonexistent. 60 decibels is quieter than anything I've ever seen rated. Thank god I don't have that crazy requirement myself.

Quiet is a relative term, the Fuji is the quietest among some rather loud devices.  But it's very white-noise and would blend in with ordinary city noise at about 100 feet or so.  For instance all the shop vacs I have ever used are noisier.  The good news is that it takes only a couple minutes to put a coat down on a 4 x 8 foot canvas, you only need to operate the thing intermittently.  And the noise is constant, there is very little variation as you spray.  I'm thinking something like 80db max, sorry used to be able to estimate better than now.  No reason you couldn't put the turbine inside some cleverly designed muffler box.

For public area use, you can get quite a mess around the area where you spray.  Even though the total amount of overspray is very low it does finally create a white powder on surfaces around the spraying area.  If you keep ahead of it you can remove the powder with a stiff broom, but if you let it accumulate too long it's finally hard to remove.

For apartment use you should probably think about rolling.  Rolling has a lot of bad rap around here and for good reason.  But with practice coating small test prints I have gotten pretty good at rolling, the trick is...poor the darn paint on the print then spread it out with the roller.  If you try to transfer the paint from a tray to the print using the roller, you just can't do it fast enough to keep ahead of drying.  If you do it fast enough the paint will still be completely wet after you've rolled the whole print, that's the key to not getting roller edge-marks.  Don't be timid about how much paint you apply, just go for it, you want a coat that puts the print literally underwater.  Forget that timid "how to roll" demo video some manufacturer has on their site, it's wrong wrong wrong and will mess you up every time.  And use at least a 6" wide foam roller, 8" is better.  Of course rolling takes longer, and environmental dirt and dust that don't bother a vertical sprayed print will find their way in droves to the surface of your face-up roller painted print.  But if you're patient enough to resist plucking off dirt before the paint is dry, and you take the sometimes considerable time to de-dirt after every coat, you can pretty much solve the dirt problem.  Bottom line though...I can HVLP prints at least 4 times faster than rolling them, and with much more consistent results, and with a lot less paint.

[Neuffy]

Bill T.:

Thanks for the info. It's been useful. It currently looks like I'll mainly be using a compressor/conversion gun (as I already own both). I can't really see using it without a spray booth, as that's how I've done all spraying up until now - I'll just have to build a bigger one to fit 44X64+s. Eventually it seems that a Q4 Turbine could be a good investment though.

I'll definitely practice rolling though, as upon occasion I'll have the need to get a canvas printed and varnished between midnight and 8AM. As long as volume is low, it should be doable.

Again, thanks.

[bill t.]

I'll definitely practice rolling though, as upon occasion I'll have the need to get a canvas printed and varnished between midnight and 8AM. As long as volume is low, it should be doable.

The main downside with coating indoors is that even water based coatings emit slightly irritating fumes while drying.  Having a big print drying in a closed room may have health issues.  I know it's definitely unpleasant to be in the same room with a 4x8 foot panel of drying prints for at least 4 hours after the last coat.  Those who live in a mild climates will have some advantage over those of us with freezing winters.  Among the coatings I have tried GlamourII seems to have the least objectionable odor.  Also probably not a good idea to coat for at least 24 hours after printing.